Does anyone like or support face-covering (hijab or burka)??

I took Bear in to the vet for his annual booster a couple of weeks ago and there was a man there waiting with his little dog, wearing sandals and an orange sheet (the man not the dog). Truthfully. I did think he looked odd and wondered if he felt cold, but it's no business of mine what he chose to wear, is it?

Well live and let live, thats my motto. I dont think I would like it if one of these women covering up their face approached me and commented negativly on my choice of clothing.

As long as they do not do it for criminal activity, what harm is it doing, after all its a free country and they should be allowed to wear what they like.

Another thing to think of I think, is the fact that this is something many generation of women did before them and this is how they were brought up, around women wearing it, so to them its just second nature as it is for us wearing stuff that we wear, as this is how we were brought up.

I do not like faces being covered up - it inhibits communication. Faces express so much; and are designed to do so. It is doubly sad when a mother cuts off communication with her child by covering her face when out of the house or in the presence of males.

Just because the "fashion mafia" also dictate how western girls should look does not make the covering of the face a positive thing. Thye are both regrettable.

A scarf is s different matter as the face is still exposed.

I really do not like having to speak to someone who is deliberately cutting off 50% of the means of communication. It feels quite wrong in principle.

It is not only women who cover their faces. I was walking along a road in town and a very tall man was coming towards me - his head and face were totally swathed in a scarf, leaving only a narrow slit for his eyes. It was a warm sunny day so he wasn't wrapped up against the cold! I have to admit I felt very nervous as there was no-one else about, not to say intimidated.

Many young women choose to cover up as a way of rebelling. It is a fairly new style of dress here within the last 20 years...or so it seems to me. I would be interested to know how many girls and women choose to cover up and how many are forced.

I live in an extremely multi-cultural area and often see women in the burkha.
I always look directly into their eyes and smile (as I do everyone I meet). Most do not respond but I will never forget the stunning eyes smiling back at me once, from within a burkha. I wondered whether it was her choice of apparel since she would have turned heads everywhere? Maybe she didn't want that pressure?

I felt rather sad the other day seeing a young mother with her face covered pushing a child in a pushchair, and thought how rotten it was that she wasn't/couldn't talk to the child; but then again I hate it just as much seeing young mothers ignoring their children because they have a mobile phone glued to their ear.

I can't help feeling that a fully veiled face is innapropriate in our culture. Being able to see someone facial expressions is a vital to communication here.

When I have visited churches etc. abroad I have covered up my bare shoulders where this has seemed appropriate out of respect for that culture.
It is not unreasonable to expect others to make some adjustments to the norms of the culture in which they live.

I have no objection to a hijab though. There is a big store at a local shopping Mall where the generally young female Asian staff are allowed to wear headscarfs. They always look very tidy, I suspect this is because they do not have the scruffy dyed hairstyles some of our young girls sport.
The headscarf does not interefere with our usual western norms for social interaction.

bananas my sister was in Tahrir square at the same time having travelled there alone and says she felt safe and protected by those around her. She only encountered one slightly hostile and suspicious person in over a week and everyone else rallied round at that point. She wore her normal clothes and a scarf over her head. Her view was that the journalist was deliberately flouting the convention that women should dress fairly modestly in Muslim countries and contributed to making herself into the story.
Interesting alternative view on that particular event.
I wasn't there so I don't know.
Not disputing of course that there is not terrible sexism in some parts of the arab world. There was pretty bad sexism last week in the USA too when those young sportsmen were convicted of rape. Lots of criticism of the victim!
There are hard line christians in our society that want to curtail the rights of women and gays.

I don't like covering the face, but I think the hijab can be very flattering as was the wimple worn in old times and still by some nuns.

I don't particularly like to see the burka but I don't think the law should get involved in what women wear.

I don't think western society should be too self-congratulatory. Western women are oppressed in different ways - they are subjected to a constant barrage of advertising and magazine articles that are designed to make them feel that the only important thing about them is the way they look.

I have noticed that some very young muslim women in London have started wearing burkas and I feel that this is possibly a form of youthful rebellion (contrary to popular belief, many older muslims do not support the wearing of burkas) which in many cases will pass as they grow older, or as a bold statement of identity in the face of anti-muslim sentiments.

Incidentally, I don't think it's very nice to refer to muslim women in burkas as "black blobs", as somebody did in a much earlier posting.

Following on from your comments nanaej, I completely take your point that in a way Western women have what could be described as a self imposed control over their own bodies, in that some are completely enslaved to an ideal that they seek to attain. I too also don't like naked/semi naked girls in so called daily papers and I remember this used to make me so mad back in the 70s when it was first introduced, although I have to say that over the yeas I have become immune to it.

However, having said all that, and on the general theme of covering up, I took my 3 year old granddaughter to the theatre the other week to see The Gruffalo a performance attended by children between the ages of about one and seven. A school party of little girls filed in, aged possibly between 5 and 7 all with head scarves on. I know this is cultural but I can't help feeling that there is something rather sad about very young children having to cover their heads in this way. Having been brought up a Catholic I can also remember having to cover my head in church when I was young and even then I thought it was a bizarre concept. It's now not required, in fact it's quite rare to see women with their head covered in church. I just hate this idea, perpetuated by patriarchal religions of course, that uncovered hair turns females into a temptress, whatever her age. What does that say about men?

There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times by Mona Eltahawy an Egyptian American journalist who was sexually and physically assaulted by thugs in Tahrir Square in Cairo. She wrote that culture and religion are used against women there. She stated that thousands of Egyptian women are sexually assaulted and then silenced by their families who are too ashamed to speak. She said she was appalled by the Muslim Brotherhood that now dominates Egypt who subscribe to an ideaology that does not support equal rights for women. President Morsi has pronounced female genital mutilation a private matter between mothers and daughters, in effect legitimising the procedure despite a law banning it.

There is always going to be a disconnect in societies such as ours between supporting the rights of women, or gays for that matter and the path that some hard line Muslims would wish to follow whereby they seek to curtail the freedom and rights of both these groups.

I don't like to see a woman walking about with her face covered it completely depersonalises her as a human being, I particularly hate that awful burka thing that women are made to wear in Afghanistan, and have occasionally seen here, it's positively dangerous as the wearer has no peripheral vision.

I don't agree with the French approach arresting women for covering their face, it does seem to interfere with personal liberty but if motor cyclists are asked to remove visors in public buildings then that rule of not covering the face should apply to all.

I do know very independent and well educated women who cover their faces when out in public. I disagree with their reasons for doing so but respect their right to do so and have discussed this with them.

I think that in some Islamic societies it has been used as 'control' of women. However I think that equally controlling of (young) women is the power of the Western fashion industry, equally abhorrent is the publication of naked/semi naked girls in daily papers.

The bigger the Islamaphobia movement becomes the more Muslim women will be seen in full cover up garb! For some it's like the 'Out & proud' or black power movements.

Two points. You can't tell who is actually inside - like these cars with blacked out windows or tanks and I know of one case where it was used in a robbery for this various reason and could be used by people avoiding the police (Males in female costumes).

Second point. This speaks of hiding away something you're ashamed of as you openly display what you're proud of (Second class citizens anyone?).

Bottom line - I don't think little girls should have to wear them. Grownups can do what they like provided they do it of their own free will. Where I live you even see tots in pushchairs wearing full-length garb and headscarves with just face exposed. Doesn't this impede kids' movement and physical development? Makes me very angry as this has crept in gradually over the last five years or so - it used to be just teen girls and adults.

Jura, do you remember those little Egyptian girls in the pool at Sharm? I think their family must have been quite observant, as the poor mother only got to dangle her feet when everybody was at dinner, but I think some of the girls had special cover-all swimming costumes.

Good luck, jura. Let us know how you get on. I hope the family do not demand special rules for their daughter when there's no real reason why she shouldn't join in the swimming and PE with the rest of the kids. Presumably sons of the same family would be allowed to. Stopping a girl child from joining in would, therefore, be discrimination on the grounds of gender, which I presume (and hope that) Swiss law is not keen on.

The pool where I used to swim in west London was also used by local schools. Classes were mixed and the Muslim girls wore togs that covered them up rather more than the other girls but still allowed freedom of movement. The mum should be able to find out about these garments, if she doesn't know already, and I would assume that the council and community would have no reason to object.

Oh heck granjura sooner you than me. It's going to be one of those 'you can please some of the people all the time.....' Best of luck

In a small community the child may feel very isolated if she is made to feel different. At that age conformity to the group is very important.
Would the community protest just the same if the girl was from a strict Christian sect which required head covering?

Granjura, I am sure you will deal with this problem with your usual tact and wisdom. Perhaps the family could be gently persuaded to allow their daughter to integrate into the country where they have chosen to live, at least as far as PE/swimming are concerned. I believe there is no religious requirement for the little girl to stay covered up. Do they have contact with any Muslim teachers or other leaders?

Are we digressing a bit Men in thongs (: and all that.

Well, out of the blue, I find myself confronted with a related issue (NOT to thongs thank goodness). Having been recently elected on to our Council- my 2 remits are 'integration of immigrants' and 'education'. We have ONE family in our small Commune, with 2 children at the primary school. Mum wear a colurful scarf and long skirt, and that is accepted here. However, the little girl is approaching the age of 8, and the parents say next year she will wear a scarf like her mum. And all hell is let loose and the community up in arms. Thin end of the wedge and all that. For me, having taught in very multicultural state schools in a very multicultural town in UK - I'd say that a scarf is fine (whereas a burka wouldn't)- but I feel I shall be very isolated on this one. Not sure how I will deal with this.

The other issue will be that it is a very small school, and all PE is done in mixed groups, and swimming is part of PE and compulsory- so no chance of separating boys and girls - and no chance of allowing a child to miss PE and swimming either. Never thought that up here in the mountains, this would be the first issue I'll be confronted with.

I used to wear cotton Kaftans when I first came to Oz. I think loose flowing clothes are much cooler, in both senses of the word, than tight revealing clothes. These days when I'm out I wear linen-type trousers and cotton tee shirts or loose blouses. I know I am more comfortable than young women in tight short skirts and crop tops, with their midriffs bulging out like doughnuts. At home I wear shorts, but never when I'm out

Sorry, my last post was for Mrs Absent - but flowing robes wouldn't work on a surf board either!

No, nobody has said much about what people look best in. Just what's awful. I was just trying to put a more positive slant. Positive comments have been made of wonderful saris and ladies in African robes etc and negative on excess's of flesh.
Lucky you to have a ribby bloke. I'm not sure Mr Nfk has ribs. I can see what you mean about flowing robes up ladders, perhaps I should have added trousers!