Four out of five British adults believe in the power of prayer.

I just meant that if you enter a relationship you don't do it purely for what you can get out of it.That would be wrong in a marriage and so it is with prayer.To be a whole person you need to be able to give(in whatever way you can) as well as to receive.I am not disagreeing with you Bags but just looking from a different perspective.I see thought as a type of prayer though I can see that you wouldn't.

I do believe in the efficacy of thought, preferably calm and rational thought, but angry thought can be useful too. But that's only talking to myself.

I don't believe in the efficacy of prayer so I don't pray. I also don't believe in any gods so I wouldn't have anything to pray to. This would seem to be self-limiting, as you suggest, gorki.

But if praying is psychologically beneficial to those who do it and who believe in its efficacy, why would a 'selfish' motive matter? I use 'selfish' to mean self-interested as in trying to improve one's psychological health. Surely it's not wrong to do that, or to seek to do that, for any reason that is not harmful to oneself or others?

Point taken Bagsand basically agreed with but it depends on where the person is coming from.For a believer prayer is a two-way process and it would seem selfish to "receive" and not to "give" and if a non-believer there would seem little point in praying to something that does not exist just to benefit from it..

More things in heaven and earth............... Sunseeker.

If prayer has been proved to be beneficial to the person doing it, regardless of whether it is effective, or thought to be effective, then surely that is a good reason to engage in it?

That's a big "if" at the beginning of that sentence, but a proof is a proof is a proof (if it exists). In addition, if someone only thinks that praying is doing them good psychologically, then that's a good reason to do it, I would have thought.

sunseeker What a lovely story.In my opinion you were praying for exactly the right thing.I pray for my grandson with autism:not that his autism will some day disappear (although I do not rule out miracles ) but that my daughter will have the strength to cope not only with him but also with the bullying that he will probably encounter.She doesn't know this as I would be met with either scepticism or anger but she does seem to be coping much better than I would have expected.

Prayer has proved to be psychologically beneficial to the one who prays though this would obviously not be a valid reason for engaging in it.

I don't often pray but I do believe in its value.

I believe in the power of prayer. Several years ago I was sitting in my hospital bed waiting to be taken into surgery because of breast cancer. I was scared, trembling and on the verge of losing it when I said a quiet prayer, I asked not to be cured but to have the strength to face whatever was to come. I suddenly became very calm and very relaxed. It was almost instant.

Later after the, successful, surgery the consultant came to see me and said that as soon as he walked into the ward and looked across to my bed he knew I was going to be fine - when I asked him how he could tell he said, "you have just had major surgery and there you are putting your make-up on!" (Well a girl's got to make an effort). I strongly believe that my prayer for strength was answered (normally I can wimp for England I am such a wuss).

More on prayer from the Telegraph. The strangest thing about prayer asking for things is the way in which quite banal and trivial prayers sometimes get positive answers and really important things don't. Also when it's something within your control?
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9954914/Eileen-Fairweather-The-power-of-prayer-has-helped-so-many.html

The WM (a full on Christian) occasionally wrestles with prayer and talks of coincidences and questions how prayer 'works' etc. but he always comes back to a position of accepting that in some, to him, inexplicable way God does indeed answer prayer.

Will be in touch re dates.

...and don't forget, we have a pub lunch at The George to look forward to.

Join me in a mug of coffee and shortbread biscuit, Bags? If only

The help and support of friends (human ones) helps too.

soop, perfectly put.

I'm with Bags...for me, prayer is a meaningless word. In any crisis I look to my own powers of acceptance of that which I cannot change, and my own strength/courage to resolve that which I can.

Perhaps the prayers aren't unanswered, but the answer is "No".

I seem to have turned into the devil's advocate – except that is exactly the wrong metaphor.

Happy clappy churches for young people are thriving.

I can't help wondering why people believe in the power of prayer when so many prayers appear to be unanswered.

And I'm still dubious about the claim that it's four out of five. #naturallysceptical

Nearside front wheel skidded on ice. I turned into the skid and found myself confronted by a stone wall. Reacted. Somersault skid over sea wall. The tide was out. So god arranged that nicely

That footballer who had a heart attack and whose life was saved by the presence of a doctor, possibly even a cardiac specialist, at the match still attributed his recovery to god, so presumably those who believe in prayer believe in its efficacy even if human help is not necessarily on its way.

Help came without the prayer. Recovery came, eventually, without prayer too. Prayer just doesn't seem necessary to me.

Did she pass her driving test?

Bags!!! You've GOT to tell us how that happened?!!!

Bags I'd give it a go!