Gransnet forums

Religion/spirituality

I can't get my head round this

(121 Posts)
j08 Tue 16-Apr-13 09:43:27

killed while walking out to meet his father as he crossed the finish line

Either there is no God, or he doesn't care about us.

Atheists welcome to do your worst. I think I will agree with you.

absent Tue 16-Apr-13 10:16:11

Desperately sad. If there were a God, why would he save one child rather than another or, better still, all of them? And why stop at children? A pointless death.

Mishap Tue 16-Apr-13 11:26:43

I doubt whether it has anything to do with god - but since he/she/it is used to explain the inexplicable, then I guess it does - this is definitely inexplicable.

I just accept that the profound things in life have no explanation - we have to live with them, however cruel.

I have no idea why people do these things.

A book I am reading at present says that it is not religion we should fear, but certainty - presumably these perpetrators are certain that their cause is just - certainly we should be afraid.

Gorki Tue 16-Apr-13 11:45:42

Agreed. There is nothing so dangerous as people who know they are right. Even with the strongest faith there is room for some agnosticism as our finite minds cannot comprehend all that there is to know.

FlicketyB Tue 16-Apr-13 12:10:13

Nothing to do with God, I write as a Christian, everything to do with the person who built and detonated the bomb. Why would God choose to spare one person rather than another? We have freewill and can choose how we exercise it. You cannot have it both ways.

absent Tue 16-Apr-13 12:17:13

What freewill was demonstrated by the child who was killed by someone else exercising his freewill to detonate bombs?

Gorki Tue 16-Apr-13 12:49:03

One person's freewill impacts upon others who can be innocent. That's why I say we don't know how these things work. We can only believe and trust that all will be well at some point. Very difficult if you are on the receiving end !

sunseeker Tue 16-Apr-13 12:53:58

This was an purely evil act carried out by cowardly people.

As to why God would "allow" the death of a child (or anyone) is a question neither I nor any other Christian can answer. Yes He has given free will which is why there is evil in this world and why, I think, He doesn't step in to prevent such terrible things. I truly believe that He grieves with us.

Mishap Tue 16-Apr-13 12:58:44

Freewill is not a religious concept - it is just a fact of life without reference to god. We are all free to wreak whatever evil or good we choose

Bags Tue 16-Apr-13 13:03:44

From my atheist point of view things like this happen because human beings are capable of them, just as they are capable of extremely heroic acts of goodness. I don't need another 'explanation'. I don't think anything can take away the pain and anguish of such things whether one is a religious believer or not though sad

j08 Tue 16-Apr-13 13:48:16

I can't believe any more. Was wavering before. I thought he was an all-powerful God. Or at least a loving one.

LullyDully Tue 16-Apr-13 13:49:16

Humans never cease to surprise me with their cruelty. Nothing to do with God. Look was has happened through history in the name of God in many of the World's countries. {burnings in Wolf Hall which I am reading now.}

FlicketyB Tue 16-Apr-13 13:58:32

Bags, neither do I. You do not need to be an atheist to think like this.

Nonu Tue 16-Apr-13 13:58:57

Lully ,
Man"s inhumanity to Man .

so sad

Bags Tue 16-Apr-13 16:12:05

You're right, flickety, perhaps I should have called it a humanist point of view smile then everyone is 'covered'.

Greatnan Wed 17-Apr-13 11:56:42

There is an obvious dichotomy between the concepts of an all-powerful god and an all-loving god. I have never understood the free will argument - I didn't give my small children free will to put their hand in the fire. Presumably, if a god existed he would have known in advance that people would use free will for evil ends, so why grant it?
I am often glad I am an atheist and feel sympathy for believers who must struggle to understand their god.

gillybob Wed 17-Apr-13 11:59:25

This is the very reason I do not believe in god. My argument being that if such a "person" did exist he/she must be a sick b*stard to take great pleasure in picking and choosing. shock

Greatnan Wed 17-Apr-13 12:38:53

It makes me very angry when there is a disaster in which several people die, and the relatives of the survivors claim that god was looking after them. Surely that is an insult to those who died?

Eloethan Wed 17-Apr-13 14:42:30

j08 We've had World Wars I and II, the holocaust, the atom bombs dropped in Japan, the mass genocide in East Timor, the Vietnam war, Northern Ireland, the massacre of muslims in Burma, the killings in Sri Lanka, Twin Towers, London Bombing, the Iraq war, the Bali bombings, the Oklahoma bombings, the Syrian civil war, etc., etc., etc., etc., not to mention a million disasters like Aberfan, famines, etc.

Why would you now decide that because of the bombing in Boston, there is no God?

Faye Wed 17-Apr-13 17:38:24

Maybe it takes some people a bit longer to realise Eloethan. #jointheclubjingle smile

positivepam Wed 17-Apr-13 22:22:43

Isn't it men who cause wars, plant bombs etc etc not God? And many people believe that "he/she" gave us free will to choose what we do. I am not saying whether I think this is true or not but that is why Christians do not blame God for the terrible attrocities that man(or woman) uses against his fellow man(or woman).

j08 Wed 17-Apr-13 22:28:07

So you think this is something I have just now started thinking about Eloethan?

Eloethan Thu 18-Apr-13 09:02:58

positivepam What about all the "natural" disasters, such as earthquakes, tsunamis, flood, fire, plague, etc., etc.? They're not man-made and nothing to do with humans using free will to commit evil acts but they still cause death and misery.

Eloethan Thu 18-Apr-13 09:08:27

Sorry j08 - I was being presumptuous. I can see that if you have believed in something all your life it must be very painful to find yourself challenging that faith.

Greatnan Thu 18-Apr-13 09:08:32

I note every year that churches hold harvest festivals to thank god for a good crop. Why do they never hold harvest wakes and blame him when the crop fails? He really is in a win/win situation! If things go wrong, it is man's fault. If things go well, it his doing.