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Religion/spirituality

Shorten your time in purgatory

(148 Posts)
Bags Wed 17-Jul-13 14:44:28

My first reaction was bloody hell!

My second was Chortle! and a sad shake of the head

j08 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:12:06

You could go and have a lovely preach in Other Subjects.

But what would you preach about?

j08 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:12:42

soop - I got stung on my foot. Itched like the devil! Don't do it!

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 14:14:25

I don't know it upsets people. I only know they complain a lot. They don't seem to care that a lot of religious stuff upsets me. Quits, then.

If it's allright to complain about atheism it's also allright to complain about theism. Simple equality.

If it's allright for religious people to preach (which it is), it's allright for non-religious people to talk back.

FFS Lily, stop whining!

j08 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:17:46

>> whispers >> is there really a word called "theism"?!

j08 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:21:59

It is a word! (sorry) smile

soop Thu 18-Jul-13 14:22:57

grin

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 14:25:14

Sorry I lost my cool just then, lily.

petallus Thu 18-Jul-13 14:28:46

feetle I don't quite buy the idea of atheists innocently puzzling over how some people believe in a God.

It's quite easy to imagine how they do.

Bags, yes, I think that's it. Maybe atheists who have had a fairly intense (and upsetting) experience of religion in their earlier life are still battling against it.

Hence, it is difficult for them to 'let it go' and 'let live'.

Lilygran Thu 18-Jul-13 14:33:09

Who on GN is imposing their religious beliefs on you, Bags? Seems to me the sandal is on the other foot! Have you tried the 'what kind of atheist are you?' quiz I've linked? Lots of fun.

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:03:13

Here is Nick Cohen's take on people asking for their religious beliefs to be 'respected' and not laughed at or argued with. In my opinion, he has it exactly right.

Politics is as much a part of the identity of the committed leftist, green or conservative as religion is of the committed Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu. When the political partisan's beliefs are insulted or ridiculed, he feels the 'offence' as deeply as any believer who has heard his god or prophet questioned. We do not, however, prohibit or restrict arguments about politics out of 'respect' for political ideologies, because we are a free society. We call societies that prohibit political arguments 'dictatorships', and know without needing to be told that the prohibiting is done to protect the ruling elite. If political or religious believers are offended to the core of their being by criticism, free countries must reply, 'Tough. Learn to live with it. We know that we tell white lies about many things. We accept that the truth can be suppressed on some occasions. But religion and politics are too important and too dangerous to risk handling with kid gloves.'

The passage is from his book entitled You can't read this book.

Ana Thu 18-Jul-13 15:06:39

I'm just curious as to why it always seems to be the Christian faith that people love to poke fun at. Surely there are other faiths which hold equally incomprehensible (to non-participants) beliefs?

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:10:29

petallus, laughing at something is not preventing anyone from living by what is laughed at. As I said, if people want to believe following the pope's tweets will gain them indulgences, that's fine (how many times to I have to say this before it is understood). BUT, I can still laugh at it. I let the believers in indulgences freely believe what they want and they let me laugh at indulgences. What's not 'live and let live' about that?

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:12:40

Possibly because it's the dominant one in this country, ana?

Actually, there is plenty of mockery and argument against other religions too (maybe not on gransnet) but christianity's a good a source of entertainment as any other religion.

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:13:44

And, as I said, the pope tweet was brought to my attention by Gransnet HQ on Twitter.

noodles Thu 18-Jul-13 15:19:01

It would be surprising if judaism or islam were discussed and criticised in the way christianity is, or budhism. We're all pretty careful what we ridicule.

whenim64 Thu 18-Jul-13 15:21:05

I like that Nick Cohen quote. It's important such subjects don't become taboo, and can be discussed both seriously and humorously.

Greatnan Thu 18-Jul-13 15:24:42

Do any of you believe in Jove, Odin, Osiris? Thought not. I just don't believe in one more god than you. Not much to say about atheism. I don't believe in any supernatural being - what more do you want me to say?
I am very interested in what other people believe, and why they believe it. Micelf, who is not a vicar, has been gracious enough to answer many of my questions. If we have any Jewish of Muslim members I would be very grateful if they would engage with me in the same way.

Greatnan Thu 18-Jul-13 15:26:00

Do any of you believe in Jove, Odin, Osiris? Thought not. I just don't believe in one more god than you. Not much to say about atheism. I don't believe in any supernatural being - what more do you want me to say?
I am very interested in what other people believe, and why they believe it. Micelf, who is not a vicar, has been gracious enough to answer many of my questions. If we have any Jewish of Muslim members or adherents of any sects of any type, I would be very grateful if they would engage with me in the same way.

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:26:07

noodles, they are! I guess you haven't looked at the Ex-Muslims Forum? The difference is that ex-christians can do it without being subjected to fatwas. Ex-muslims have to stay anonymous. I'm certain that there are similar levels of criticism within and about other religions too.

petallus Thu 18-Jul-13 15:26:54

Bags I feel fairly confident that I understand nearly every point you make the first time you make it.

It's not rocket science!

whenim64 Thu 18-Jul-13 15:29:23

noodles I grew up in a district heavily populated by Jews and Catholics, and now that mix includes Muslims. If you could hear the conversations and lack of inhibition about views, between those groups, you would be both taken aback and maybe pleasantly surprised. My son's friends and business colleagues don't stick to the niceties we have here on Gransnet. When I ask them about their 'banter' about religion, sex, families, politics etc. they all agree on one thing 'that's how we all mix together - you lot are over-sensitve!' I assume by 'you lot' they meant people of my generation.

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:29:25

So why were you asking about live and let live as if it wasn't already happening?

Tegan Thu 18-Jul-13 15:29:40

Religion is endlessly discussable and fascinating in that it still shapes the world that we live in, in one way or another, whether we believe in a God or not.

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:29:45

That was to petallus.

Bags Thu 18-Jul-13 15:30:32

Well said, tegan. I hope I may quote you next time someone asks me why I'm talking about it.