Should we follow France's lead and ban face coverings?

I think we should because I agree with the ECHR ruling that seeing faces is a public right and a benefit to society as one of our ways of communicating with each other (was important as speech), that face-coverings raise security issues and no particular kinds of face-coverings should be exempt from others, and that burqas are degrading to women.

as important as speech

I agree they should be banned. As Taj Hargey states the Koran merely states that a woman should dress modestly. What happens if a woman wearing a face veil walks into a bank or building society - does she have to remove the veil? I would not be allowed into one of these institutions with my face covered.

I do think that the wearing of these face coverings is wholly inappropriate to our society.

I agree. I find talking to someone when you can't see their facial expression or mouth very difficult. I feel exposed as they can read my face while they stay hidden. It may be ok if you know the person hiding in there, but a stranger? This applies equally to motor cycle helmets, hoodies and veils. I don't have a problem asking the first two to uncover and have done without causing offence but a veiled stranger? Personally I avoid them if at all possible.

Also, suffering from tinnitus and minor age related deafness as many of us do, I find it extremely difficult to hear their speech - it's muffled and I can't read their lips. Lip reading for the totalling deaf is incredibly difficulty but a lot of people partially lip read - sometimes without realising.

I agree with everyone but, especially, NFK.

Totally agree with banning them here.

I too think they should be banned for all the above reasons.
If everyone wore a face veil we would be like zombies.

According to an article by Dominic Kennedy in today's Times, Taj Hargey –who is, according to Kennedy, "a prominent imam" – "brands" the Muslim face veil as an "archaic tribal rag" and, the article says, Hargey "condemns the veil as an imported Saudi fad that should be rejected for religious, social, sexist, security and health reasons."

Liberty, on the other hand, seems to be talking bollocks, saying that the veil has "nothing to do with gender equality and everything to do with ... racism in western Europe".
Dear Liberty, if the veil, as you call it, has nothing to do with gender equality, how come men don't wear it?

I agree too.
I think the reason why France is the first non-muslim European country to ban face covering is that they have the biggest percentage of Muslims - nearly 10%. So it's a bigger problem for them.

ps I think they're the first - haven't checked that.

I love seeing Muslim women wearing their head coverings [can't remember what one is called which] but every time I've seen a woman with everything except her eyes covered it has actually made me jump and feel very uncomfortable in an instinctive sort of way. We are social animals and use facial expressions as part of our communication and it's wrong not to be able to see someones face.

As I understand it the burka totally covers the face with netting over the eye area, the niqab is the one we occasionally see round here which leaves just the eyes showing and the hijab, which is the head covering leaving the face exposed.

At least that's my understanding. In the West Midlands see mostly the hijab and a few niqabs, but only very rarely the burka.

I agree with what has been said by everybody. I have come across this as a Speaking Examiner for ESOL. We always ask them to remove the burka during the test and no-one has ever refused me but I believe my male colleagues have met with some opposition. As the students are examined in pairs and their partner could well be European or any nationality it is important that the face should be visible when speaking with each other both for audibility and body language which is so important in our communication with others.

I wonder what would happen if chimpanzees [or other apes] had their faces covered? I would imagine it would result in them becoming violent towards each other. It doesn't seem natural for us [as a species] to not use facial expressions.

Yes they should be banned. I always feel nervous when I see a veiled person, especially on a bus, and wonder who is inside the covering!

Considering how many laws and conventions in this country have been changed to allow choice, I disagree. I think they should have the choice, if it makes them feel uncomfortable to uncover their faces in public.
Men's equivalent, tell them to shave off all moustaches and beards.

Chimpanzees??

I think we're a little more evolved so there's no need for us to become violent towards each other!

I don't like face coverings but it's not for governments to tell people how to dress.

I think the point Tegan is making is that we read each others faces very minutely as do other primates. To cover it up robs us of this ability.

That's not equivalent at all, jen. One can see the features and facial expressions of men who have beards and moustaches.

If it is about choice you'd be arguing in favour of motorcyclists keeping their full face helmets on in banks, for instance, and in favour of face-covering balaclavas of the sort we tend to associate with people up to no good, anywhere where someone wanted to wear one. Are you arguing in favour of that choice?

Why should the choice to cover one's face only be for some people and not everyone?

Riverwalk the ECHR would disagree with your last statement.

I think it's silly to talk of face coverings that are not there for protection (e.g. the sort fire fighters need to wear at work sometimes) as "clothing". Face coverings are for two things: protection in certain circumstances, or to hide behind. The rest of the time we need to see people's faces. Other apes are the same, as people have said already.

There is a letter from an iman from Oxford in today's Times (Dr Taj Hargey) saying that in his view the face veil is not called for by the Qur'an. He calls it a Saudi fad.
www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4138123.ece

Tresco that's what I said in the Original Post! But thanks anyway ..

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