Why are we here?

The second poem was wrong as the stars are not cold. Our sun is a star, and is definitely not cold.

I think you are taking it too literally.

Aka when we ask, 'Why did that happen?' In the case of an accident, we may be considering human motives or looking at a series of events which may or may not appear to be related and resulted in the accident. In either case, what we are really asking is 'How?'. 'Why did Alice drive too fast' is a genuine why question. 'Why did the car skid' may be formulated as a why question but it really means 'How did the car come to skid' ie what circumstances existed which resulted in the skid.

From my viewpoint at the age 70+ I am drawn to certain conclusions:

1)that the universe is a vast cauldron of energy and forces, enormous amounts of matter, and vast quantities of space, all in an endless timeframe. The lot of it in a state of constant upheaval and change.

2)that lifeforms, including ourselves, have somehow evolved out of that universal cauldron (presumably not by accident) and that at some point in this universal upheaval the spark of life somehow took place. We may only be at the early stages of that development.

3)that concepts such as good and bad exist but are are only discernable by us. The rest of the universe exists without any feelings.

4)that my part in all this is entirely transitory and of little consequence

5) that its now time to reward myself with a large pan-galactic gargle-blaster!

Quite right papaoscar!

Elegran that is so true, what you said, "we would not know that we were not there".

@papaoscar - 'Not by accident?' That would argue for an entity with some intent, some agenda - for which there is surely not a shed of evidence?
Otherwise, I'm with you all the way!

I must say it tickles me to think that when I die, having had no children, it puts an end to an unbroken line extending back millions of years to the very first life on this planet - as with every other one of us.

@suebailey1 : The fact that 'millions believe' is irrelevant to the truth or otherwise of an idea. After all, ask how many must believe before something magically becomes true - is a million enough? How about a million and one - would that do it? There would have to be a magic number at which point the laws of the universe could be ignored!

According to J M Barrie's Tinkerbell in "Peter Pan", for fairies to exist, people have to believe on them. Every time a child grows up enough to say out loud "I don't believe in fairies" a fairy dies. In the play, the only way to save Tinkerbell is for the audience to all join in and shout that they believe.

I remember questioning my (devout catholic) grandma about the existence of "her god" when I was a child. I might have been 9-10 years old. I always wondered why, if there was such a man or woman (grandma insists it is a man) would he let some people have happy, healthy lives and others be sad, ill, starving etc. this is a question I continue to ask myself and is often the beginning of some very interesting arguments discussions with my grandma even to is day.

@Elegran - ooh yes, I remember applauding to save Tinkerbell! And Peter was played by Margaret Lockwood...

It's the fallacious idea of 'positive thinking' really, isn't it?

Hang on feetle, don't dismiss your personal contribution so lightly. Your bodily constituents must go back at the very least to the the origins of the universe, so your bits, if you'll pardon the expression, have been roaming round the planets for aeons contributing to that glorious universal Grans-network of which we are all part, and will continue to be for ever. And we haven't even considered yet the genetic consequences of things like quantum mechanics in all its mini-micro-complexity and glory. So, in the meantime, well done all, we're probably going on forever in one form or another. So let that be our legacy!

Now, as regards the accidental nature of creation and evolution. I note that, as far as we know, even the very simplest forms of life and everything else, conform to the known laws of physics and chemistry. This does seem to me to confirm that there is a grand plan or scheme of things (which may, of course, have nothing to do with religion). I just don't know what it is or who is behind it, but I suspect that if we were clever enough to know we would be able to the see the guiding of Gransnet hovering over all!

I can take it literally or metaphorically, Hollydaze.
Cold dead stars sounds even worse.
I look at the stars every night because my grandson believes his granddad is on one of those stars, so we have to decide which one.
They are not cold and dead to us, as that would make him cry.
That's why that phrase stands out.

I have to declare a deep irritation with philosophy - read a bit as a module at uni and it nearly drove me nuts!

Whilst these guys are tying themselves in knots and vanishing up their own a****s addressing hypothetical questions, who is doing the washing up?!

That's a hypothetical question by the way.

We know the answer anyway, mishap hypothetical or not - it is Mrs Philosopher.

I always used to think that about Jane Austen, Mishap. I'd be the one cleaning the grate.

Is that the reason for my existence? To clean the grate?

^I can take it literally or metaphorically, Hollydaze.Cold dead stars sounds even worse. I look at the stars every night because my grandson believes his granddad is on one of those stars, so we have to decide which one. They are not cold and dead to us, as that would make him cry.
That's why that phrase stands out.^

But the poem wasn't written from your perspective durhamjen but from the perspective of someone who feels alone in the universe and worries that there is no 'greater being' out there keeping it all under control and giving us purpose to exist from day to day. Wouldn't that lead to a feeling of desperation and seeing things in a different light?

(I love a star-studded sky - we see that quite a lot (Milky Way is often clearly visible here) due to very little diffracted (I think that's the right word) light - I think it is one of nature's most beautiful sights.)

Why should there be a reason for our existence? We are here as a the biological result of copulation by our parents.

We're here because we're here because we're here.

Because we're here!

Written on a tombstone just outside Rome 2000 years ago were the words "I was not, I was, I am not". There is nothing new as they say. However my own personal belief is very strange and I do believe we exist for a purpose. My beliefs are strange but are shared by more than 2 billion people. I believe that there is a God, that he created this vast universe and from what we know loved his creation so much that he came here in person and was crucified and proved his claim 3 days later by rising from the dead. I believe that those who witnessed this were telling the truth and that it means that it is relevant through all ages and to all people. I agree there are many unanswered questions, but personally I must try and work them out on the basis that this is the truth. Very strange indeed, but true?

Each to their own

I think I agree with the words on the tombstone.

#littleliferoundedbyasleep