Gransnet forums

Religion/spirituality

EmilyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 25-Sept-14 11:26:52

Do you believe in angels?

First-time novelist and Huffington Post blogger, Hattie Holden Edmonds tells us about an experience that made her question whether those uncanny coincidences in life might just be little miracles. A topic which she was inspired to explore further in her first novel, Cinema Lumiere.

Hattie Holden Edmonds

Cinema Lumiere

Posted on: Thu 25-Sept-14 11:26:52

(216 comments )

Lead photo

Hattie Holden Edmonds

"That first fizz of inspiration can come from anywhere, but for me there are several technicolour moments, that seem to be spotlighted in the run up to writing Cinema Lumière. One of the most extraordinary incidents took place over ten years ago, but even now, whenever I think about it, I feel a skitter of goosebumps across my skin...

‘Did that really just happen?’ I asked my friend Angelika as we sat on the bus, heading towards Kings Cross. We were both staring at each other, trying to find a rational explanation for something utterly irrational that had just happened.

Earlier that afternoon, Angelika and I, had been to the Tate Modern, to help take my mind, if only for an afternoon, off the recent death of my father from a stroke. Angelika had also lost a family member that year so perhaps naturally, our conversation as we’d stepped on the bus, turned to the possibility of life after death. Neither of us had very strong opinions on the subject and neither of us are religious.

We were the last passengers to board the bus and were sitting at the front on the ground floor, just by the luggage racks. As we rumbled off, we continued the conversation, but seconds later, without the bus having had a chance to stop again and let any other passengers on, we noticed an old man standing to our left, by the driver’s booth. He was dressed in an oddly old-fashioned three-piece suit made from Harris tweed. I knew this because my Dad had a thing about Harris tweed suits and as a child I loved going with him to his tailors.

"There's a part of me that believes that it was nothing less than a little miracle."


So it was the suit that I clocked first. Then I noticed that there was something sticking out of the man’s top jacket pocket, which I can only describe as an out-sized calling card. Short-sighted as I am, I could still make out what it said because the writing was in such bold print.

“Death is not the end, it is just the beginning.”

‘That is so bizarre,’ said Angelika, in answer to my initial question. But she wasn’t looking at me anymore.

I followed her gaze to where the man had been standing – but now there was only an empty space next to the driver’s booth. We scanned the rest of the ground floor but he wasn’t there either. The bus hadn’t stopped in the short distance since we first noticed him, so presumably he’d gone up to the top deck, although he must have been pretty nifty on his feet. I scooted upstairs to check, but he wasn’t there either.

Even though it took place over seven years ago, that afternoon has stuck in my mind with technicolour clarity. I’m still undecided about what exactly happened. Part of me wants to dismiss the encounter as simply a coincidence. And yet there’s another part of me, a part which lies a little deeper, that believes that the man who got on the bus with precisely the answer to mine and Angelika’s question poking out of his top pocket, was nothing less than a little miracle.

Have you ever experienced something similarly inexplicable? If so, I’d love to hear about it and how you chose to see it.

Hattie can be found spending most of her time writing, while running a ramshackle cinema in a fisherman's hut in Whitstable, and teaching meditation at a palliative care unit in Ladbroke Grove.
Her first novel, Cinema Lumiere, the story of a mysterious picture-house with only one seat, is out now. You can purchase a copy on Amazon.

By Hattie Holden Edmonds

Twitter: @gransnet

Nelliemoser Fri 31-Oct-14 18:10:06

Angels and Archangels may have gathered there,
Cherubim and Seraphim thronged the air. ?

Well may be, but I do think we all can create our own calmness and comfort whether it's down to meditative mind calming, relaxation with hot rocks on your back, Angels or whatever.

Phoebes Thu 20-Nov-14 21:36:38

A few weeks ago I was tidying out the wardrobe and found an old handbag of my mother's full of papers. (My parents died in 1985 and 1990). I decided to have a look at the papers and found my parents' marriage certificate. I knew the year they were married in, but not the exact date. When I unfolded it and looked at the date it was the same day I found it! Was this just a coincidence or a message?

alex57currie Fri 21-Nov-14 11:32:50

Phoebes you posted this 3rd. Oct. earlier this year. Is this an oversight/mistake? I.e. a senior moment. smile

feetlebaum Fri 21-Nov-14 12:27:38

@Phoebes - Coincidences happen all the time - yours was similar to the fact that in any roomful of people it's highly likely that two will share a birthday.

Odds of 365 to 1?

rosesarered Fri 21-Nov-14 14:38:20

It may be very nice to think that a guardian angel is looking after you, but common sense tells you otherwise doesn't it? Otherwise, what about children who are murdered [or adults] people who die in car accidents etc.Who is looking after them?
There are strange co-incidences that may be nothing more than that, a coincidence.
There are some strange happenings as well, that can't always be explained away [as yet.]
Human beings will always need spiritual comfort in one form or another, and if something helps then so be it.
However, since this thread is about angels the only opinion I have is that there can be no guardian angels otherwise we would all be protected from terrible things happening to us, and we are not.

Elegran Fri 21-Nov-14 15:09:41

Feetlebaum. The odds are far less than that. It depends on the number of people in the room.

The maths is rather complicated, but if there are 23 people in the room, the odds are slightly more than 50/50 that there will be two people who share a birthday.

Elegran Fri 21-Nov-14 15:14:48

Here is the maths, feetlebaum Have fun.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

papaoscar Sat 22-Nov-14 16:43:47

In an often cold, harsh and cruel world it is a great comfort to hold the view that there is an overseeing benign presence helping us along the way. It may not be rational, but life is not rational, nor is our very existence. Who knows or can explain how or why we exist. All we can be certain of is that we do, in our own mind at least. But on the micro- or macro- level, who knows? For example, Hattie's experience on the bus of the vision of her recently dead father could well have been a projection by her Angel to help her cope with her own deeply felt grief, a vision strong enough for her friend to see as well. So I'm quite happy to accept that Angels can and do exist. Perhaps there are even a few wafting about the glittering ivory towers of Gransnet at this moment. Long may they stay!

Iam64 Sun 23-Nov-14 08:45:58

What a jolly post papaoscar - have a good day smile

pompa Sun 23-Nov-14 09:32:01

Papaoscar, sometimes I wish I had your faith. I find it difficult to believe in any higher being. If I did I'm sure it might help in the darker moments that life throws up. The only angels in my life are those people that deserve the description, luckily I come across quite a few.

gillybob Sun 23-Nov-14 10:00:33

What a lovely thread. My grandma absolutely believes in angels. At 98 she has been a widow for over 20 years now and tells me stories about angels visiting her. She knows my grandad is "looking after her" and often tells me that she spoke to him in the night and asked him when she could join him. A few nights ago she said that he came to her in the night and she said "come on now a jokes a joke but this is ridiculous, how much longer are you leaving me here for?"

grumppa Sun 23-Nov-14 10:45:41

rosesarered points to the difficulty of believing in angels when there is so much evil in the world. The dilemma goes away if one believes in devils as well. Do the Gransnetters who believe in angels believe in devils too?

hildajenniJ Sun 23-Nov-14 10:58:12

My take on guardian angels is that they do not so much guard the physical body as they guard the spirit or soul of the person.
Evil exists, and horrible things happen, but guardians are there to protect the spirit from the evil that is done to the physical body.
I don't know if I am making complete sense here, but this is what I believe anyway.

feetlebaum Sun 23-Nov-14 11:35:29

'Faith' has been defined as an excuse for ignorance. I would ask - what other things do you do for no good reason?

I do have faith in some things of course - that tomorrow will dawn, for example. But we do know why it will and we know how it will - and we know that it has never once failed in billions of years - so the possibility does exist that it won't, but it is vanishingly small.

papaoscar Sun 23-Nov-14 14:28:49

Yes, it's true that there is plenty of evil about and it thrives on ignorance, greed and prejudice. But for me the idea of heavenly winged-wonders combating that evil armed only with good deeds and platitudes is more than a bit far-fetched. I would rather visualise my Angels in the form of those Spitfires and Hurricanes who knocked seven-bells out of the German Air Force in the Battle of Britain. After all, if Hugh Dowding, the brilliant leader of RAF Fighter Command, could believe in fairies then surely there must be something in it, but I accept that that view may be considered a bit simplistic these days.

So, how to explain why bad things happen and why the innocent suffer? The best explanation for this I've come across so far is that its the result of the mixed-blessing of free-will which most of us enjoy. There is a constant battle going on everywhere in all of us between the good and bad, and all shades in between. As regards a benign super-being, I don't happen to think there is some old chap up sat up on a cloud playing lottery with our fate. I think we all share a tiny part in the evolutionary process and that the consequences of our actions speak for us for ever, either as a result of our own actions, genetic inheritance or progeny. I am not an academic, but I am aware that that the worlds of philosophy, science, mathematics and even aspects of religion appear these days to be converging, so in the meantime I'm quite content to accept the concept of Angels. May their wings continue to flutter over us all!

Galen Sun 23-Nov-14 14:51:23

feetle silly question. Drinkwine

Ana Sun 23-Nov-14 14:54:06

Lovely post, papaoscar smile

rosesarered Sun 23-Nov-14 17:28:22

My young autistic grandson dressed up today in one of my scarves and necklaces, posed, and said 'Look at me! I'm a supernatural'. I didn't have the heart to correct that to supermodel.smile

Grannytwoshoes Thu 27-Nov-14 18:54:41

Interesting thread....our daughter was kIlled instantly in a car crash six years ago and I still can't get my head round the fact that one moment she was there and the next gone. but the idea of fairies and guardian angels brings comfort to many and I never ignore a white feather! I still searching!!

Iam64 Thu 27-Nov-14 19:00:41

Grannytwoshoes flowers
Searching is a Good Thing I believe.

Popaoscar - lovely post indeed.

Falconbird Thu 04-Dec-14 08:44:05

I can often sense a beautiful presence or more than one presence during times of extreme stress. Unfortunately they don't stay and seem to disappear when the crisis is over.

loopylou Thu 04-Dec-14 14:00:32

Fascinating thread, I didn't believe in ghosts until lived in 400 year old farmhouse where we would hear footsteps and see dark shadows, as had my devoutly Christian MIL.
Culminated in episodes of poltergeist activity including an unplugged standard lamp flying across the room in front of my total disbeliever DH. Things went missing and turned up in the most unlikely places like a locked attic cupboard whose keys were lost by my in-laws 30 years earlier and which we broke in to when we were clearing the house. Had to get wonderful Canon to come and do a blessing, he wasn't at all surprised.
My mum is the daughter of a 7th son of a 7th son and often 'saw' people just before they died, used to scare me!
Oddly enough I never minded being in the farmhouse alone, although the dogs and cats would never go into the middle sitting room.
Was told years ago I have 2 guardian angels, one who is a very old lady and the other a Red Indian but although I have never seen the former I nearly drove the car off the road when I looked in the rear view mirror one day during the summer and saw an Indian in full headress looking back at me! My husband was in the car and he said I went as white as a sheet and I had to stop the car and let him drive....very strange and I hope I don't see him again when I'm driving!

Pammy56 Sun 07-Dec-14 17:49:37

Definitely - my husband promised to stay close to me and he does....24/7.

Nonu Sun 07-Dec-14 18:23:41

Yes I most certainly do, they are there to help and protect us IMO.
tchsmile

NonnaLi Tue 23-Dec-14 10:34:06

We had booked a cruise of a lifetime which my mother had said was her treat to cheers me up as I had had a rotten divorce and to take the children too 14 days in the med visiting her favourite places.
Soon after she booked her health deteriorated and 10 days before she died- her last wishes were that we should go anyway and think of her.
So we did the first port of call was Villefranche ,we went ashore and found a lovely cafe.A completely white pigeon landed by the table and wouldn't leave even when shooed away. We thought nothing of it when we landed at the next port again a white pigeon was always near us, also in Venice St marks square my mother's favourite place (renowned for its pigeons ) where we sat a single white pigeon came to join us .
The children used to say look nana is with us and I felt she was.
Going home from the airport I had my window open a crack and a white feather dropped in onto my lap .since then I often have white feathers fall in my path when I am down or thinking of mum - maybe just coincidence but maybe my angel