If you want to ask a question

Original sin - I have always had difficulty with this concept but perhaps there us more to it than we think:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29760212

Assumption of intellectual superiority is certainly not limited to those of faith!

(that should have been 'intellectual/moral' superiority)

Elegran, when I read your history of how the bible was written, it made me think of one big Chinese whisper. Never thought of it that way before.

Soontobe, are you a vegetarian?

But the concept of original sin says that everyone is tainted with the sin that got Adam and Eve evicted from the Garden of Eden, and is born with the burden of that inherited guilt. Not, of course, God's only-begotten son whose destiny it was to save mankind from their punishment for sin. Then, since he was born of a mortal woman and could be thought to have himself inherited the sin from her, his mother was deemed to be without original sin, too. I am not sure how her immunity came about.

It gets very complicated. It was all explained to me once, but the details have faded.

Doesn't mansions (in the Biblical context) simply mean a place to stay from the Latin manere – to remain or stay?

Is religion not a way of keeping the masses in order?

Is it cynical of christianity to 'take over' pagan festivals to further their cause?

That is an interesting link rosequartz.

durhamjen - no I am not a vegetarian.

Is religion not a way of keeping the masses in order?
No. I would have said it has a bit of the opposite effect personally.

Not sure about your last sentence rosequartz.

Elegran - I could be wrong, but I dont think the bible says that Mary was without sin?

btw, I am not sure if posters are now asking me specifically or in general. And just to be clear, I am more than happy for anyone to answer anything.

Oh, thanks.

Is religion not a way of keeping the masses in order?

Actually, thinking a little more, my above answer to that is probably wrong.
Of all the religions through the ages, I think that it is highly likely that some religions have been used by some leaders or governments or dictators or whoever to keep the masses in order.

"The opiate of the masses" according to Marx. Promise them heaven, so that they will endure their dreadful lives, and not revolt.

To continue discussion....

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
—Epicurus

1. He is able.
2. He is sometimes willing.
4. See 1. and 2.

3. Evil comes from the devil

I don't think the Bible said that Mary was without sin, soontobe but the Christian church decided that she was.

The Bible says that Mary was "full of grace" and "blessed" but that is all. The teaching that she was without sin was not formulated until 1854

I believe that God is omnipotent but he has also given men and women freewill which somewhat complicates things.

Should we all stop eating shellfish? As in Leviticus 11, 9-12. etc etc

Surely we know that many OT rules and regs were good old Elf & Safety rules to avoid illness and to keep order. Gave it a bit more clout if God said it! Now we have refrigeration eating shellfish and pork is not so risky and also we don't need to bury our dead as quickly.

Funny how we do pick and choose the bits we want/like and disregard other bits e.g.

OT An eye for an eye vs NT Turn the other cheek etc.

I am happy to live my life doing as much good as I can by doing as little harm as possible just because that feels like a positive way to be and, in general I like my fellow human beings. I don't want to sound self satisfied. I have loads of doubts, frustrations, worries and fears but do not feel a deity will help resolve them but know that it helps many many people.

When I brought up the question re Jesus saying the 'many mansions' thing, I was not thinking of the "mansions" at all. Rather, whether Jesus was promising bodily resurrection.

What do you reckon, soontobe?

Well. puh. Maybe? <scratches head emotion>

Lilygran There is really no need to be sarcastic. As I understand it, a fact is something that can be proved to be true and a belief is "an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without
proof".

I would expect you to say "This is what I believe". I wasn't referring to one particular religion. There are all sorts of religions and they all believe that their religion is the true one - do you believe everything they believe is true?

I thought the mansions in "in my house there are many mansions" symbolised the various belief systems that all lead to one God?

Never heard of that one before eloethan. Do you really mean there will be separate housing available for all the different religious groups that manage to finish up in Heaven?

WhOops! Not very Christian to laugh.

So, have any of you highly intelligent, profoundly knowledgeable, love-thy-neighbour, Christians got an answer to my question. Bodily or spirit only, when the trumpets sound?

.... and we only have to look around the world to see that what falls under the "umbrella" of one religion often has many offshoots which all have their own interpretations of what their holy books say - they all believe what is often only slightly different things and yet even those slight differences have in the past caused, or continue to cause, mayhem and conflict.