Good for Michael Gove! Never thought I'd say that............

I was not criticising the fund-raising for the church - I do a fair bit of it myself, as we value the building and what it and the people represent in the community. I was just saying how delighted the churchgoers were to be raising money for a different charity for a change.

I know of no agnostic thinkers who would use a phrase like "pixie in the sky" - I stand by that statement - it is true. No - I do not use twitter. I am talking about people I know.

I do not think that using the word "claptrap" is part of reasoned debate.
I understand that Christians believe that giving someone a bible is a worthwhile gift - they would not do it otherwise; but I see it as patronising to others' beliefs, which should be equally valued.

I do think that Gove's article is simplistic, and most of my Christian friends would I know share that view.

That was a slightly po-faced thing to say Eloethan. Sounded like a stern old grand-mama from the Victorian period.

Mishaps - it's a thread. On Gransnet. Come on! It doesn't have to be a to be a heavy "reasoned debate".

I'm glad you live in a sheltered little place where you don't know what goes on in the present outside world.

durhamjen that's rubbish, and you know it.

Is there then no place for reasoned debate on Gransnet? - does everything need to be reduced to flippancy?

There have been in the past some excellent reasoned debates on here which I have found interesting and from which I have learned a lot.

There is room for both maybe. Constant insistence on dragging everything in one direction seems a bit of a shame. This is what happened to the poetry thread which I for one looked forward to - and the opportunity to share poems and ideas.

I have seen what goes on in the outside world - I was a SW for goodness sake!

Writers Corner is still there. I don't understand what you mean about that.

Room. Not corner.

It is now, today, that the Christian religion is being criticised, insulted, and marginalised. I think that is sad. The two commandments given to Christians, "Love God", and "Love the neighbour as thyself", are pretty good rules to live by.

Probably not fair to Gove just to give a link to the piece in The Telegraph. Actual article www.spectator.co.uk/features/9487882/in-defence-of-christianity/.

Not to beat about the bush: Gove did more damage to English education than any of the eleven secretaries of state who held office during my period as a school governor. angry

I mean

It's interesting to me that when it comes to the state of religion in culture, the Americans and the British are almost mirror opposites. In the US you can be looked on the devil incarnate if you express anything less than total belief in Christianity. A religious affiliation of any kind is better than saying you're an agnostic or an atheist. Here in the UK Gove is pointing to a reverse situation here in the UK. What concerns me, almost more than anything, is the way the world is polarising around religion. Surely lack of tolerance for any beliefs which do not match our own is a regressive step which serves no one, least of all a healthy society.

Indeed yankeegran - tolerance has to be the first principle or frankly we are all doomed, which is the direction we are heading in. When people dare not voice their beliefs then we are in a sorry state.

This is what happened to the poetry thread which many of us were enjoying. A member felt moved to write this to another member called J05 -

"J05 your first contribution on this thread was interesting. You are now drifting into a more familiar mode in which you are not discussing the poem but just chatting to yourself and spoiling the thread for other people. There are many areas in GN where frivolity rules and it's great to have fun. Would it be too much to ask that you consider others a little bit more and do not give in to your compulsion to throw in one liners on every thread?"

So nobody prepared to say what level of taxation levied for the Church would begin to test their allegiance? And how they would feel about local taxes paid by all, were used for the maintenance, repairs, heating, cleaning, etc, etc, of their local Church either?

We are shivering in our shoes in case the Chancel Tax hits us!

Oh right. I wonder which poster posted that little pleasantly? . And I wonder how many other GNrs agreed with her.

Actually, I can guess who posted it.

Could you give me a link mishap? I'm not sure I'm thinking of the same thread.

Sorry that was in response to Mishap!

It's an interesting question granjura, and not one I've ever given any thought to. I wonder how many people actually attend their local church - I don't attend regularly but am happy to help with events and fundraising.

Over the last 20 years we've lived here the village church committee has raised over £4000,000 for upkeep of the church, graveyard and buildings.

The majority of the committee are older villagers, very little contribution, financial or otherwise,has come from those coming here from London and owning weekend cottages or those commuting to the city. I wonder what the response would be if everyone contributed in the way you suggest?

that should have been "pleasantry". iPad thought it knew better

You have an amazing memory for hanging onto bitchiness.

Ages sinçe I was j05!

I maybe take the wrong attitude about all of this.
Christianity is always going to exist, no matter what anyone says or does about it.
And it cant get any worse than certain times in the bible.
Plus God can do things about it if he wants. So I dont get overly bothered by all of this. The number of christians there are is partly down to God.

It doesnt mean that things shouldnt get corrected. Or that christians and others should rest on their laurels at all.
But I am just talking about the overall picture really.

Link please Mishap.