Have you ever been in this situation?

Leaving aside the spiritual and religious aspects of this Smileless, if your DS believes that contact with your estranged son should be maintained, can he not accept that this is extremely difficult for you, and has he offered to help in any way to facilitate contact?
I'm really struggling to understand what the scriptures have to do with it. To me it's simply a matter of the milk of human kindness, empathy, and compassion.

We are doing OK thanks Mishap. I should perhaps explain that we are currently on holiday in Florida so although it's 12.10am in the UK it's only 19.10 here. This may explain why the time I'm posting looks a little odd.

I really have found all of the posts helpful and of some comfort. The initial 'sting' has been taken out of his words and the sense of panic and doubting of my self has definitely been reduced.

As all of our past efforts to try and solve the problem have failed, and we are not even any longer in the position of being able to 'talk' to our estranged son any more, we have for some time made no attempts to contact him believing that at least for the time being we should say and do nothing. This decision has not been an easy one to make or act upon and it is this that our other son seems to be unable to accept. He cannot understand why we do not at regular intervals contact his brother even though previous attempts to do so have either been completely ignored or met with angry and/or aggressive replies.

I agree jingle that if bought up very much in the Christian faith, one's insights are very much governed by Christ's teaching and although I believe our son knows this, at the moment he seems to think this only applies to him and no longer applies to us.

It's a lot more than "relying on my own insight" soon. I think when you have been brought up very much in the Christian faith, your insight is naturally governed by Christ's teachings. Ok, no one listens to their conscience all the time, but it usually nags at you, because of your upbringing. I am far from being saintly though.

I thought, in my non comformist innocence, that as far a Christianity was concerned the main gist of the teachings of Jesus were about loving and forgiving one another.

www.openbible.info/topics/love_and_forgiveness

How are things for you today smileless?

Second question to Brummiegran too. Though I always hesitate to say much bible things to Catholics, as I dont think that we read the same bible words?
You have the Apocrypha?

You are relying on your own insight jingl.
Do you think that God wants you to rely on him more?

I'm more a 'Woolworth's Catholic', I pick and mix

But with religion, and faith, it's all fairly subjective isn't it? I personally don't consult the bible about any problems that come up in life. I prefer commonsense.

You do have a very fundamental belief don't you?

I am trying to build up jingl.
But to build up, it is important to have the right bricks in the first place. The right information is important.
I couldnt let the posts stand any longer.

There are many many instances in the bible where men and women were given direct guidance, much of it very specific indeed. And often, things and places they did not want to do or go.
Jonah is one which very much springs to mind.

That was to soon

would you like to give us all a hundred lines

I hesitate to put my head in the lion's mouth but as a 'liberal catholic' for want of a better phrase I find this idea that we pray and receive direct guidance a bit difficult. I pray for God to help me cope with life's obstacles not in the belief that I could ever know, for certain, God's plan for me and mine.

sorry. It was that first sentence.

I am going to have to speak about posts on here.

Free will IS god's will, as I understand it.

We have been given free will. But it is not what God wanted for us. It is what he has chosen for us after the tree of life stuff, [Adam and Eve], where life on earth went wrong.

We have choices, a lot of choices, but God has specific ways he wants us to go.
Eles really, if you think about it, what would be different between someone who wants to live a christian life, and someone who doesnt.

God is most definitely on the side of good and not evil. In the bible, God was definitely on one side rather than the other. There is no way that God would approved of much of what Hitler did.

For what it is worth, I agree with that post of Mishap's, except that God can be very specific about things, so a mature christian very much goes by specific passages sometimes.
Your son, at the moment, will not be much aware of context in the bible.

He is reminding me of someone sorting through laundry for something to wear, and is pulling out a sock rather than a dress.

Smileless - it is so good to hear that the posts on the thread have been helpful.

The crux of the problem would seem to be that your son is new to his religion and he is perhaps a bit like a newly-converted non-smoker! - going over the top in one direction.

Remember that you have the wisdom borne out of a long understanding of your faith and time behind you to study and interpret and take a broad view. Maybe you need to go with your interpretation of the way forward, whilst trying to help and support your son in his attempts to make sense of things. He will slowly move towards your mature understanding - but it may take time.

In the meantime I hope that you can find a way forward with him, that maintains your mature understanding, but helps him to find his own way with your love behind him. I suspect that trading scriptural quotes might not be helpful, which was why I suggested approaching the problem from the broad view of what Christianity means in terms of how we relate to others, rather than individual passages from the bible.

It sounds a though it might be a bit of a tightrope walk! - and this on top of the family problem that you are both trying to solve. It must feel like a huge burden.

Ministers are humans too, and while they may have spiritual insights they are not all good at human communication, or dealing with social and family situations.

Have faith in your own judgement - you are the wiser one here, by virtue of your long adherence to your faith. I suspect that you know you are doing the right things, but just feel disappointed that at this stage you cannot take your son with you. Time is the key. And lots of love.

Is the reason people get a different meaning from the same scripture passage because it is the Word of God, interpreted by man? Therefore the written word is full of the Scribes own beliefs and prejudices?

Maybe in time your son will see that mist things in this life are not black or white, right or wrong. All you can do is pray for understanding.

That was my first thought too jingle. Perhaps it wouldn't be something that the church per se would encourage but it is upsetting when you turn to a minister and he in effect, turns you away.

Yes he is as you say a baby Christian soontobe weilding his bible with the best on intentions but unable to see the potential harm that can do.

I can understand the vicar doing that, but that is not very helpful to you both really.

Oh dear. He is a baby christian according to the bible as I expect you know Smileless. Which was part of the reason I pmed you, as I didnt want to pry too much into your son on this thread.
If you just want to talk on here, that is fine. You dont have to pm me if you would rather not.
He is finding his feet. It is up to you whether you show him the appropriate bible reference for that.

Oh dear. That's very sad, about your ex-vicar not helping you anymore. Not very Christian really. (suppose I shouldn't say that)

Thank you so much for all of your responses. All of them are important to me and I am grateful for the time each of you has taken to respond.

I have seen your pm soontobe and will reply.

Thank you for your insight Mishap. My son is guided by scripture. He's relatively new to his faith and has not yet found a church or regular place of worship but reads his bible with the studios manner he approaches many aspects of his life.

I have tried to explain to him that although we see this situation, and a possible solution from different perspectives, that doesn't mean that either of us are wrong. Sadly, he doesn't respect mine or his father's and is either unwilling or unable to accept what we believe to be God's will. I'm sorry but I can't think of another way of putting it and it is my desire to, as soontobe has picked up on, to follow the path that I believe God wishes me to take which is upper most in my mind.

Pompa you say you are not a believer but you are absolutely right in what you say. I understand that my son needs to be true to his faith and that's what I want for him; it upsets me though that he will not allow me to be true to mine.

jingle my DH had several talks with our local Minister about our dilemma and we were both grateful for his input. Sadly, he has moved to another Parish and now seems to be unwilling to assist us further, believing that we should seek the help and advice from his replacement. Due to the personal and upsetting nature of our situation my DH does not at the moment feel able to confide in his replacement. Before he left us he was always fully supportive of the decisions we had taken.

I couldn't agree more Leticia, I could easily match my son quote for quote as any Christian or non Christian could do if they took the time to look through the bible. I re opened this particular can of worms by writing to my son as his mother, trying to explain our personal suffering and the decisions we've made in order to cope. I have told him that it is difficult for me to know how he truly feels when he only responds with scripture; he replied with scripture.

I realised the magnitude of my question, to ask 'why are we here' would have been just as hard to respond too. You have all in your own way helped to make my mind a little easier. Thank you.