Have you ever been in this situation?

I'm more a 'Woolworth's Catholic', I pick and mix

You are relying on your own insight jingl.
Do you think that God wants you to rely on him more?

Second question to Brummiegran too. Though I always hesitate to say much bible things to Catholics, as I dont think that we read the same bible words?
You have the Apocrypha?

How are things for you today smileless?

I thought, in my non comformist innocence, that as far a Christianity was concerned the main gist of the teachings of Jesus were about loving and forgiving one another.

www.openbible.info/topics/love_and_forgiveness

It's a lot more than "relying on my own insight" soon. I think when you have been brought up very much in the Christian faith, your insight is naturally governed by Christ's teachings. Ok, no one listens to their conscience all the time, but it usually nags at you, because of your upbringing. I am far from being saintly though.

We are doing OK thanks Mishap. I should perhaps explain that we are currently on holiday in Florida so although it's 12.10am in the UK it's only 19.10 here. This may explain why the time I'm posting looks a little odd.

I really have found all of the posts helpful and of some comfort. The initial 'sting' has been taken out of his words and the sense of panic and doubting of my self has definitely been reduced.

As all of our past efforts to try and solve the problem have failed, and we are not even any longer in the position of being able to 'talk' to our estranged son any more, we have for some time made no attempts to contact him believing that at least for the time being we should say and do nothing. This decision has not been an easy one to make or act upon and it is this that our other son seems to be unable to accept. He cannot understand why we do not at regular intervals contact his brother even though previous attempts to do so have either been completely ignored or met with angry and/or aggressive replies.

I agree jingle that if bought up very much in the Christian faith, one's insights are very much governed by Christ's teaching and although I believe our son knows this, at the moment he seems to think this only applies to him and no longer applies to us.

Leaving aside the spiritual and religious aspects of this Smileless, if your DS believes that contact with your estranged son should be maintained, can he not accept that this is extremely difficult for you, and has he offered to help in any way to facilitate contact?
I'm really struggling to understand what the scriptures have to do with it. To me it's simply a matter of the milk of human kindness, empathy, and compassion.

I was raised RC but had a sense of the Divine when I was very small, This feeling has come and gone over the years. I'm not RC now but C of E and find comfort going to services occasionally.

The sense of the Divine has matured since I was a little child (under 5) but it has helped me in times of trouble. I can only describe it as pure light.

Never doubt yourself Smileless but do speak to a local priest or vicar. That's their job after all and I'm sure they would be glad to speak with you.

When my Dh passed away a very strong woman vicar visited me and was very helpful indeed.

Smileless 2012 Only you know if God has spoken to you. If you truly believe that he has, then no amount of quotes from Scripture makes a jot of difference. Ditto for your son.

Well said Absent, you need to believe what God has said to you, how others interpreter what they believe he has said to them, you cannot influence.
Be true to your own beliefs.
Tolerance will prevail eventually.

I am glad to hear that you are enjoying a holiday in Florida smileless - great stuff.

Have confidence (dare I say faith!) in your well-thought-out decision, painful though it is. Your son needs to understand that this decision is taken with the background of the principles of your faith, but that you can also empathise with where he is coming from.

Enjoy the sunshine - which I assume you have there.

Smileless I cannot think of any writing in the bible that would advocate a grandmother being denied a normal close relationship with her grandchildren.

I don't know the passages he is quoting at you, but even if he considers you to have broken one of the Ten Commandments (! ) there is no way the punishment for that would be taking love out of a child's life. Is he by any chance quoting the "sins of the fathers being visited on the children" stuff?

But I guess it's not going to help for us to get involved with the war of the quotes. It's just very puzzling. And hard to understand.

Yes. Try to enjoy your holiday and let this all float away for a while.

Hi smile less, yes the Protestant reformation reordered the bible and separated then dismissed some of the Old Testament. The New Testament is the same. What is really different is, I think, the approach and focus on God directly intervening in your life. I have evangelical friends and when they pray publicly for certain things I feel embarrassed. It was never part of my upbringing.

I recall that prayer in public is expressly condemned in the 'holy book' of the Christians...

I do not think that prayer is something that is answered directly - all assuming that you believe in the existence of a god or gods - but most religions have texts that set out the principles by which to live and these are usually about love and kindness (in spite of the way that this has universally been corrupted). These are the principles that might help smileless in her dilemma.

feetlebaum - can I ask, do you have a copy of the bible?

Brummiegran, it is totally understandable to relate to how you were brought up.

For anyone who wants a look, there are a large number of references on google about public prayer, prayer requests etc.

soon, it's not necessarily "understandable". That makes it sound like something we need forgiveness for. It might be something to be glad about.

I'm sorry if I'm splitting hairs here.

feetlebaum - "Where three or four are gathered together in my name..." ?!

I think it is the loud ostentatious praying that is frowned on, in the Bible and by individuals - like the The Pharisee's, who stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector."

Why do you ask feetlebaum if he has a Bible? And why do you write it with a lower case "b"?

Diverting and intrusive questions are not, I think what is needed here, nor are quotations (much as I love a good quotation) but empathy and support are needed, and I know will be much valued.

Smileless I do hope you find your way through this quandary. If I believe in nothing else, I believe in the power of (human) love. x

I never knew that the Bible had to be spelt with a capital B. I will look it up sometime.
I dont think Smileless will mind me saying that I we have been pming, and so support and empathy has been given.

If it refers to the Holy Bible it should be capitalised.
If it refers to a reference work ie. the birdwatchers bible it would be lower-case.