Christianity and socialism

Greeks did - they named a few of them

They observed the apparent movement of the planets across the sky and made deductions from what they saw.

More about it - www.ancient.eu/Greek_Astronomy/

You're both right, of course. Must admit I was thinking about Jesus and his cohorts rather than the bigger picture!

The made in God's image bit I have always taken to mean men and women, that look God like.

The riches of the church can never be justified but they try bless them

You are probably right. But they do have a huge number of buildings that are somewhat crumbling.

And it rather defeats the object to sell them all.

They are a witness to God at the very least.

"A witness to God" - what does that mean?

soon, I was speaking of the R C Church, the wealth of this church in poor countries such as South America is so wrong. Christ said - sell what you have and give to the poor, how can they justify churches with much gold whilst children sleep on pavements and work on rubbish tips. I have asked the nuns at our local convent this - they are friends - their reply is the people want the churches like thst, well for me I think if a seven year old who sleeps on the pavement and has an empty tummy was asked the answer would be different. Christ gave his most well known sermon on a hillside

whitewave.

The money lenders did make him annoyed. If I remember correctly they were being dishonest, plus they were practicising their dishonesty in the Holy temple.

He doesnt talk of a higher revenue stream as such.
But we are supposed to be wise. A country is supposed to be wise. Chrisitains are supposed to pray for it's leaders.

There is nothing wrong in earning money.
The proper expression is "the love of money is the root of all evil", not money is the root of all evil as is sometimes quoted.

Obviously a country can distribute its money unwisely and indeed badly.

Eloethan, I liked your post.

feetlebaum.
A church is on holy ground. A church is God's house. A lot of people think of God when they enter it.

A sign might have been a better word?

Anniebach, I agree with your post there.

[the sell what you have and give to the poor bit may be out of context in the way you have used it in that post. I will look that up myself tomorrow].

Soontobe We have been here before. Give us a break

God can be found anywhere soon, did you ever read Corrie Ten Booms book of her time in a nazi concentration camp?

It's amazing how dogmatic people are about this Jesus - in fact nothing is known for sure about the man (whose name was not Jesus), nothing is known for sure about anything he might have said or done. There are no contemporary documents, no mentions in the work of historians. Nothing. Nada. Bupkes... And yet you will tell me, with not a shadow of doubt that he did this or said that. Now - I'm not saying he didn't; I'm saying that nobody knows...

We do know that many of the stories that are interpolated in the Gospels are uncannily simlar to those told of other heros inthe general area of the Middle East. Those same Gospels disagree on most things anyway.

I read Corrie Ten Boom's books a long time ago. They were very very moving for lots of different reasons.

I thought that' the church' was wherever two or three are gathered in the name of God. So why do they need all the riches ?

@Soon - "A church is on holy ground" What's 'holy' about it? Has a man in a special hat said some magic words there? Yes, I know that sounds perhaps a bit patronizing, but really... a Bishop seems to me to be no different to a conjurer, except that his tricks never work...

The church can be two or three. But often a lot more than that gather.

There are several points to be made about the wealth of the churches. One is that much of the 'wealth' is tied up in buildings, many of which are historic, iconic landmarks, expensive to run and a nightmare to repair and in salaries and pensions, training, mounting major public events and so on. Another is that of course, a church doesn't need any of that. But members of a faith community want the place where they worship to be as beautiful as possible. Look what happened with the people who arrived from Asia in the 20th century. They started off worshipping in community halls and rented houses and as soon as they could, built temples, mosques, gurdwaras. Much of the wealth of all religions is from the gifts of the faithful, willingly given.

The Quakers manage without owning properties

A "church is on holy ground" but it is holy ground because a building has been built on it, where people meet and think of God (the "two or three are gathered together in my name") The building or the spot is nothing without the people and their thoughts. If God is anywhere, He is everywhere.

It is understandable that those who meet there feel that the place has a special meaning to them, and it has to be maintained and kept pleasant, but lavishing wealth on it when the congregation are in want (and others who are not of the congregation) is not according to Jesus words.

Not out of context soon, it was the reply to the question put by the young man who had lived according to the scriptures - what else could he do to inherit enteral life , I understand he was not saying everyone should give away all they had and he didn't disapprove of the young man, going by memory I think it is said Jesus loved him , this is the defence put forward by the church, for me it is wrong to surround one's self with wealth whilst others starve and by wealth I am not thinking only of very wealthy people

Anniebach I agree.

As you say, the part about wealth was to do with that specific man [though it may apply to more people too].
Jesus at that point was not speaking to the administrative boards of the churches.

When Jesus himself was preaching, there were church buildings. And as far as I am aware of, [unless he was talking about dishonesty there, or the specific bit when he was talking about tearing one down and building one up in reference to what was coming regarding his own life], he didnt seem to have an issue with them.
Back in that time, there appears to have been buildings, as well as groups meeting in each others' houses, and down by the river etc.

But yes, situations like you describe in South America do not seem to be Christ like to me.

* If God is anywhere, He is everywhere*

I think, and I could be wrong, that Jesus' spirit is in Christians. But when two are three are gathered together, then Jesus himself is amongst us.
Some one can correct me on that if I have got that wrong.