Christianity and socialism

I think that anyone can follow a lot of what Christ preached, without having any belief at all.Not all, obviously.

I do remember from somewhere in the New Testament, that a disciple was pressing Jesus to do something and Jesus told him ' the poor will always be with us' meaning I think that they should listen to him and his teaching, because he wouldn't be here forever.they are still with us in the world today, and they were still in the USSR under extreme Socialism, Communism.

The socialists on this site don't seem too keen on humility, forgiveness and turning the other cheek!

It was only man that stated we were made in God's image . Of course we are not.

We are apparently made in the image of god - and since mankind can be cruel, egocentric, warlike.....well,add your own.........where does that leave god?

I am not a Christian and have very little time for any religions because they generally support the traditional devaluation and suppression of women and exploitation of the poor.

However, whilst all scriptures are interpreted in different ways by different people and we can never know how accurately they report what happened or what was said thousands of years ago, it does appear that Jesus was very unusual in appearing to put forward principles of:

humility, non-violence, non-exploitation, forgiveness, unconditional love, communalism, etc. :

Love thy neighbour as thyself
Turn the other cheek
Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God
Good Samaritan
He who is without sin cast the first stone
Throwing out the moneylenders
Sharing the loaves and fishes with everyone
Washing feet of disciples

.... though, of course, many theological experts will dispute those interpretations.

People predictably tend to say "Of course, all those qualities are admirable and desirable in ..... (wait for it) ..... an ideal world but they are not achievable in this world." Perhaps that is so, but it will never be anything even approaching an ideal world if we don't at least try to make it so.

I am neither, but could never understand who so many wanted to dissociate the two- the basic tenets being almost identical.

I always think about Jesus as the Rebel Rabbi - he followed some of the OT laws but saw through the hypocrisy of many of the others.
In his time he was like the leader of a political party, but many of his sayings are too cryptic for me to understand.
eg Render to caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God, the things that are God's. ie paying taxes?
He was a pacifist too.

So soon, thinking of Christs teachings and living your life Where does He talk of a "higher revenue stream"? I rather think that the money lenders made him somewhat annoyed! On the other hand he did show by example in the sermon on the mount of the necessity of sharing your wealth in the form of loaves and fishes - but of course I don't need to tell you this

I think I see the Tory party somewhat differently.

I see them[generally and I agree that they may be going in the opposite direction currently], as being the party most able to provide the fundamentals of a stable society, with peace and a consistently higher revenue stream than other parties. This enables the general population to live without the threat of nuclear war, and more money to distribute.

I can understand how others think, but as far as I think, there are all sorts of people in all parties.

I agree that some people in the Tory party are "every man for himself" but I suspsect that that is very true of politicians in other parties too.

Taking all the political parties the Tories and UKIP are the furthest away from the teachings of Christ, the Democratic Socialist Party the nearest .

I think we will end up agreeing to differ on this thread Anniebach.

How can a person follow the teachings of Christ and be a Tory? They can be decent human beings but it is impossible to support greed and live as Christ asks. There are humanitarians who live closer to Christian teachings than many Christians . I am not saying socialism is christinity , it is the closest for me

"Our primary identity is in Christ, not a political ideology, but our reading of scripture inevitably leads us to “speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves”, standing against injustice in all its forms, on the side of poor and needy."
This quote is from the Christian Socialist organisation 'Christians on the left' of which I am a member. Perhaps a visit to their website will help you soon.

The director, Andy Flannagan, is a singer/songwriter who I have heard speak (and sing) on several occasions and who I think is inspirational. He often sings at concerts to thousands, but very kindly once came to our little prayer room and gave a free concert for just a small group of friends.

Politically "love thy neighbour" etc is not the exclusive province of socialism; but I confess I do find it hard to winkle out the loving sentiment behind political doctrines that encourage competition and "every man for himself." Is there such thing as a truly Christian Tory? - at which point I will duck behind the furniture...........

Your link is what I wanted.

"Love thy neighbour, do unto others, " etc, however laudable, are not specifically exclusive tenets of Socialism except in the sense that it is underpinned by equality and justice for all.

I think that I agree with this. I dont think durhamjen, vampirequeen and Anniebach do?

[I feel mean by the way discussing this without Anniebach, but I presume she will join in when she can].

The Old Testement is not the teachings of Christ, if discussing Christs teachings one needs to read and follow the four gospels .for me socialism is the closest to his teachings , care of the vulnerable , the needy, the homeless etc. Equality , no rich / poor divide. A Christian cannot support the death penalty, cannot say taking in the homeless would affect our life style, cannot say charity begins at home, cannot support an eye for an eye, cannot put self first . A Christian has to ask when faced with a problem or a decision to be made - what would Jesus say .

I am not saying this is what Christians must do, it is what I believe Jesus wants me to do. I am not saying socialism is Christianity, it is the nearest for my beliefs .

All religions do not share the same beliefs , The Jewish faith does not acknowledge the teachings of Christ, they are still waiting for the first coming , Christians for the second.

Taking all the political parties the Tories and UKIP are the furthest away from the teachings of Christ, the Democratic Socialist Party the nearest .

I thought the definition of full-on socialism was much the same as the one that communism started out with "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" and no-one having nore than that. Equality for all, public ownership of utilities and equal distribution of resources.

Basic Christianity, with its emphasis on loving your neighbour as yourself, and doing to others as you would have them do to you, is coming from the same standpoint, except that it also emphasises belief in the supernatural aspects of its founder, and the importance of total obedience.

It is human nature that gets in the way of Christianity, Socialism, or even Communism, being paradise for all.

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" - Orwell, Animal Farm.

Soontobe' You asked for a definition of "Socialist" and it is defined as someone who supports Socialosm (bit of a tautology, so not very helpful) so I have quoted the definition (not a link) of Socialism. If that is not what you wanted, please repeat your question.
What's hard to understand?
"Love thy neighbour, do unto others, " etc, however laudable, are not specifically exclusive tenets of Socialism except in the sense that it is underpinned by equality and justice for all.

The idea of Christianity is to care about each other, and socialism seeks to make that concrete by reducing the amount of competition and inequality in society. It is very hard to achieve and can (and has) gone pear-shaped where it has been taken to extremes - just like Christianity.

Christianity exists because of the New Testament.

What about all the "smiting" in the Old Testament? Not too keen on gays or women as far as I can remember.
The New testament seems to chime more with Socialism.

soon "Love thy neighbour as they self" remember that? "Good Samaritan" remember that? and lots more - you don't need to Google it just refer to your bible.

I dont see what Alea's link has to do with Love your neighbour, and do unto others for example.

x post. Cant say that I understand the Wikipedia link. Off to google some more.

In that case, perhaps I am getting the wrong end of the stick. I thought socialism was a left wing principle. Off to google.

This from Wikipedia

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[1][2] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.[3][4] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership (achieved by nationalization), citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[5] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[6]