Religious tolerance

granjura I was surprised at your statement about religion in Eritrea so I checked. I think the latest figures are 50% Christian, 48% Islam and around 2% traditional religion. Of course, what you say about FGM is true in that the practice is nothing to do with any religion but is a disgusting traditional practice particularly across parts of Africa. Religion, as so often, is used to justify all sorts of indefensible attitudes and activities. I read some research recently that suggested very Orthodox Jews and very Evangelical Christians have very similar mind sets. You always have allow for the human element in any discussion of religion.

Lilygran But surely the scriptures of both the religions you mention characterise females as intellectually and morally inferior beings who pose a risk to "decent" society if they are not controlled by men, so I think it is reasonable to suggest that there may well be a link between both those sets of beliefs and the practice of FGM.

Some religious people say that these scriptures should not be questioned in any way or adjusted to take account of the times in which we are living because they represent the word of God and are therefore timeless, or they say these scriptures recount what happened in those times but were recorded by men who may have been mistaken or who may have put their own "slant" on things, or that something has been inadvertently lost (or gained) in translation from ancient languages. None of these lines of thought convince me that scriptures of any religion provide reliable or desirable guidance on which to base one's code of ethics.

granjura , we choose our own interpretations , all we can do , as I quoted St Paul then I was not speaking of the extremes in the Muslim faith . I am a Christian but cannot accept Paul's - wives obey your husbands as some Christians do.

of course Annie- as said though, there are many Christians, especially in Africa, who do believe that no interpretation of any part of the Bible should take place, and followed verbatim- which, considering the examples given in OP, shows just how extremists Christians can be- if not in the UK generally.

There are several brethrens in the UK with quite extreme views re the education of girls. I had several in my last school who had to wear long socks and skirts and a scarf at all times, and had to leave after GCSEs, despite desperately wanting to continue their studies and had arranged marriages. It happens here too.

Granjura I think your interpretation of how Christianity characterises women is more than a little intemperate. And I repeat, that religion is used to support and justify prevalent attitudes. I don't see a negative attitude towards women in either the OT or the NT, any more than towards men. And as for FGM, it is practised as much by followers of traditional religion in Africa as of Islam and Christianity in Eritrea. As far as I know, it hasn't ever been practised in the West. I thought your discussion of translation was extremely interesting and very relevant to the fact that many Christians regularly spend time studying the Biblical texts in an already interpreted version. In my opinion, some widely-held beliefs arise from ignorance of 16th century usage or from reading highly simplified versions. The general objection, for example, to the use of 'non-inclusive language' which to the modern hearer implies women are excluded.

I hope we will be told what Dr Laura Slesssinger's reply is.

re translation and interpretation.
I know a little bit about the translation etc of the hebrew language. Most of the learned Rabbis of the early years disagreed over both, partly because hebrew is a conceptual language with many nuances.eg I was listening to a tape today about the hebrew word for forgiveness, mechila. The hebrew root being a 2 letter verb (I think), with several different but related meanings in english, depending on vowels, prefixes and suffixes etc.
I believe most Christian Bibles are based on the Greek version of the original Hebrew, then to modern languages, most of which don't have so much scope of expression. So plenty of room for variation.

It is very important not to go by "religious people" alone. Unless you cant read, or dont have access to the Holy Bible.

At its heart, christianity is a personal relationship with God.

I would like to add a point 5. to what is above.
It is a sort of add on to point 3.
Some things are added by people that are not in the Bible.

I dont think people should be put off christianity because they think some of it may not be interpreted quite rightly. Or others are not following it correctly.

You are responsible for getting yourself a personal relationship with God.

I agree soon

absolutely- and exactly what my relatives would say about Islam, the Koran and all the Hadiths- All I am saying, is that there are huge discrepancies in interpretation of the Bible, as there are of the Koran too.
There may be few Christian extremists in the UK (although, as said, I've seen the work of some of the Brethrens like Plymouth's)- but there are plenty in parts of the world, including Africa and also a large number of creationists in the USA.

How great to expose the hypocrisy of the Bible and of bigoted, so called Christians As a Lesbian atheist, fortunately I don't come up against much prejudice but realise that many do so good to see a humorous riposte.

I must be really shallow as I thought Anya's original post quoting the good Dr Laura was very funny.....

Oh and I did laugh out loud!

Really? I think our priest and his partner , also a priest, have met with far more predjudice from Atheists than from fellow Christians

Not all bigots are religious, hicaz46.

Granjura sorry I misremembered who had posted what! Eloethan I don't see the characterisation of women that you describe in any part of the Bible. I think that during the Middle Ages, particularly, because of the Black Death and the belief that the end of the world was nigh, some very strange doctrines developed about the horror and allurement of the flesh. I think this was very disadvantageous to European women and that the effects lasted a very long time. And I also think, as I keep saying to the point of mind-numbing boredom, that fanatics and extremists will seize on anything they can to support their world-view. There can be no other explanation for the way in which a religion founded on the doctrine that all human beings are of equal value is so misunderstood and so misrepresented. If I were speaking in religious terms, I would explain it by saying that human beings are also weak and sinful.

We are all multisexual beings as we are ultimately descended from such aquatic animals as sea anemonies/squirts,polyps. sea cucumbers etc.,

Parts of the Bible were written by different groups. Do you know who were the writers of leviticus? Was it the lawyers? Just wondered.
I enjoyed your post Anya although I haven't read all of the replies and I am not familiar with Dr. Laura. Is she American?

Paul never met JC but wrote his letters extensively and basically making it up as he went along!
To me St Paul is the first example of what is wrong with organised churches. Individuals start adding their own prejudices, interpretations and ideas, enjoying the power it brings and before you know it they have created their own sect!

I have wrestled with Paul since a teenager, doubt this will change , he seems to have placed himself as the place of Christ , big ego ?

Why don't we have a forum called daft stuff? I have some tucked away that still make me double up. It was a part of the culture of the local authority where I once worked, a cottage industry sending stuff round in ever increasing circles. (nothing rude, natch.)

I think she must be American aprilinparis they tend to do Christian Fundamentalism the 'best' don't they?

annieb

Flutter there's lots of daft stuff on Thought for the Day thread, some of it pretty rude

PS I gave it on good authority that Moses wrote Leviticus.

American Christian fundamentalists? true Christians , a few wanderings away from the teachings of he whom they follow , murdering staff at an abortion clinic because taking a life is the work of satan, joining the KKK , worshiping in white only churches then going ballistic when this was condemned , they know Christ was blue eyed and blond haired , supporting horrific medical and psychological treatment for homosexuals .

Those American Christian fundamentalists ?

Going back to Penstemmon's post.
Some christians dont like his writings, which make up about 2/3 of the New Testament, because they are hard to do.
That in no way makes them wrong.
They are also God inspired as is the rest of the Bible.