There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

Here is something to think about on this topic

I was not suggesting that religious people do not do good works, but saying that for me it is better to ditch the agonising about the existence or otherwise of a god/s and simply get on with living a decent life. So much time can be wasted on this fruitless search, and it would seem that every religion has kindness to others at its heart, even if it goes off the rails (sometimes in a very big way).

If a person has faith why would they spend time agonising over it ?

Many many people agonise about this decision Annie - before they come to a conclusion, either one way or the other. People since the dawn of time have written great tomes about it, debated it, discussed it, killed over it......I think agonised is he right word.

'My Lord, My Lord why hast thou forsaken me' Is that not agonising? You are a very lucky lady AB if you have never suffered the torment of losing faith, or having to choose between two evils, between following your heart or upholding your religious beliefs, between familial loyalties/duties and God's call.

Granny23, not lucky, I have no idea why have I have not doubted, I have known great sadness , death of a young husband, two babies died at birth, my first love murdered in Pretoria prison , yet I never doubted , perhaps a time will come when I will, I am not not smug about my faith. Christ's teachings are so hard to follow and I fail often, but I have never known doubt in God. I gave much time when young in discussion and prayer before I chose to give him my love, trust, faith . I have not lived a cosy sheltered life , there have been very difficult times but God has always been with me . Don't know how to explain it.

Luckygirl, yes I understand that but surely they agonise because they doubt , this I meant when I said - if they have faith , if doubt crept in thst would be agonising

For those who have acquired this thing called faith (from where? - who knows?)I guess that the bottom line is that you believe in a god or gods.

For those to whom this concept is alien (perhaps we are not the chosen ones!?) then spending a lot of time trying to decide whether any god (let alone a loving one) exists is futile. Getting on with being as decent a human being as you can and spreading as much happiness as you are able to would seem the better option.

Annie - I am glad that your faith has sustained you through some dreadful times.

Thank you Luckygirl, I assure you I have raged , faith doesn't take away grief or anger at injustice . I once said in confession how I had walked up one of our mountains and ranted and raved ,swore , I was advised - no matter he is bigger than you, he can take it , that you raged at him shows your faith in him.

Suppose just as a child gets in a strop with a parent , it calms and the love remains

Exacgtly how I feel Lucky. I do wonder to what extent the fact I grew up in a 'mixed' family where religion was a souce of much unpleasantness and discrimination (going totally against what the religion said) - and then marrying someone who came from an even much more mixed family, where it was the same only 10X worse... and then acquired many friends on our travels with yet more and very different faiths- confirmed to us, what we both felt already as young children - that all those sincere people with their own and very different faiths and rules, etc- just cannot be reconciled (and therefore that it made no sense at all).

Annie your faith was certainly tested in the extreme, and I am so sorry for this. It is amazing your Faith endured, but I am glad to hear that it was of great comfort to you x

Granjura thank you. I think perhaps it has endured because I don't expect more from God than he gives an atheist . I am equal to all in his eyes, not above or below a line , I don't give it much thought, he loves me, he loves all , he sent Christ to guide us and we choose to follow or not.

And I do admire you for this - sadly many religious people do believe that their God is benevolent only to His/Her own- and only if...

There is a loving God. I know Him and I know what He is like.

The funny thing is that the same people who blame God for the sins of humans, also complain that if God is loving there would be no hell. One day, God will put a stop to all the pain, and that will involve bringing hell into play. At the moment, He won't do that to give evil people a chance to repent.

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I believe most of humanity suffering has nothing to do with God but it is Mankind who has a lot to answer for!

Mans inumanity to man Anneishere

Wow - this is a blast from the past!

Luckygirl and nothing has changed ,we still drop bombs or supply them and the families of the folk we kill still retaliate ...now where exactly IS that caring god?What harm

That loving God did not tell us we should make and sell guns and bombs or that we rule the world ,we invented the British Empire and stil have the need tell the rest of the world how they live

If you believe in God than you also have to believe there is the alternative, he goes by many names but Christians call him Satan. Satan uses his influence to create evil and do harm to us as he wants us to turn against God. Why God does not intervene and stop atrocities before they happen I don't know, I wish I did and I wish He would.

I don't think it's just the UK that's to blame for all the war and bloodshed in the world, Annie.

I didn't say it was Ana but always a good thing to look at our faults before moving onto the faults of others.

But let's not run away with the idea that all is doom and gloom in the world - there are plenty of good decent people that exist - people who help others who have compassion for others. You just look around and goodness and beauty is around us all. The sad thing is what with internet and media we seem to just hear about all the negatives. If you look at newspapers /TV news reports you never get much good news - it's mainly all bad news causing many to believe life is all doom and gloom. If there is a bad force there is also a good force - you simply take your pick & make your choice.

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Surely a "real" loving God would not let this happen?

What bad things Gilly?