A thread to debate the existence or otherwise of the Christian God

soon, we cannot forget the harm that was done to people over fifty years ago with the teachings of the end of world is nigh . So much fear , so much harm done with the explanation - it's Gods will, people lived in poverty because it was Gods will for them, wealthy people lived in luxury because it was Gods will - plus the fact they could give their churches money which helped keep the poor in their place .

Was it Gods will so many children died of consumption caused by apalling housing conditions or the will of the land owner who took the rent ?

Fear of God caused so much harm , so much misery, and this fear was strengthened by quotes from the Old Testament .

I am maybe 20 years younger than you, so I only caught the end of the world is nigh stuff.

We are told many times in the Bible to have fear of God.
But that is supposed to be a personal fear between ourselves and God.
It is not supposed to be extended to give fear to others.

On the other hand though, God and what he does should not be watered down.
There is a balance, as there is with many things. And so many people seem not to be able to cope with a middle road.

soon, I cannot accept ' fear God, fear means to live in dread of , why not honour, respect , just as we do with our earthy father .

Just think of the horrific treatment of homosexuals because of fear of God , churches where segregation was acceptable , the list is endless and much misery was caused by the fears in the Old Testament, I respect the fact that these teachings are important to you , but I will continue to meditate on the teachings of Christ .

Soon there may be many references in the Bible to "be afraid" but "be not afraid" features more I think.

I have to say Annie that your interpretation of your faith is one that I can admire; but equally I cannot pretend soon that yours does anything but fill me with revulsion - to me it is narrow, judgmental and deeply distasteful. But I respect your right to hold those views; as no doubt you respect mine to hold mine. My many christian friends are kind, open-minded and liberal in their interpretation of their bible, so that their religion is an enhancement to their lives and to those around them.

Which bears out what I have said before: the same biblical source can create such huge discrepancies that they seem like two completely different religions. Each person interprets their religion in their own way - there is a different faith for every believer, whatever tyheir rfeligion and wherever they are.

All thumbs at the end there!!

Fear of God was used to control people.

Is rain nice or not?
Well, I think that without it we wouldn't be here
But I agree, floods are disastrous
Lack of rain is disastrous too

I saw a man disappearing along the road the other day wearing a sandwich board - he was too far away to read what it said. However, it did remind me that we often used to see someone walking around with a sandwich board warning that the 'end of the world is nigh'.

Eternity is too difficult a concept to think about, soon
And an endless universe.

Fear doesnt mean to live in dread of. I dont see why it should.
Fearing God means to be deeply respectful of, and mindful of what He is capable of.

Luckygirl. Of course I respect your right to hold your views. I resepct everyone's right.

You post many posts saying you dont like God doing this that or the other.Unfortunately that doesnt matter though.
You wont be let off things becuase you dont agree with what God has done, is doing, and will do.

Being kind openminded and liberal is all very well. But if they havent got the interpretation right, and have actually intrepreted the Bible round to what feels comfortable to them so that they dont have to do certain things that are written, they are going to have to answer for that.
As we all are.

I do actually have a problem with the openminded bit. I actually think it is a bit of a closed mind, when many things in the Bible cannot be accepted.

soon, fear is fear, it means to be fearful, have you never felt fear ? it's horrible , how does one fear who/what one loves. What father wants their child to fear them? Wants their child to live in fear ? Yes sets boundaries , every child needs these, and if these boundaries are broken through the child can come to harm , but the father doesn't test the child to see if they will step over the boundaries . A father doesn't test a child's love , not a loving father

People fear thunder and lightening. Or spiders.
But until there is thunder and lightening, or a big fat spider appears, the fear doesnt normally register.

But whatever.

We are told to fear.
Christians should not be ducking, because we dont like what is written.

Same applies to testing. We are told that sometimes we are tested. So be it.

We dont have the choice of escaping what is written.

Then if we have no choice we have no free will

Fear is not the same thing as respect... a victim's fear is what motivates a bully - you know, like the one that had a man close to 'sacrificing' his son in the O.T. ... We don't repect a bully, whatever is 'written'.

If you notice all of the OT sacrificing the son bit, it was not going to happen. He was not to actually do it.

Have you read the whole Bible feetlebaum, to try and understand all of it?

Anniebach. We have the choice to do it wrong. And then to repent.
Or the choice to do it right.
But yes indeed, our choices are limited to say the least.

There is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love

John 1. 4.18. New Testament . KJV

I did wonder whether an archaic form of fear could mean respect, but I checked the online etymology dictionary and every provenance of the word is a negative one, which seems to indicate that we should be afraid of God.
Apologies for interrupting. I've no wish to take part in the discussion, just interested in the semantics.

" if they havent got the interpretation right" - right according to whom? - to your interpretation or someone else's, of which there will be millions?

"You post many posts saying you dont like God doing this that or the other" - that is not so soon. I reply to those who are quite reasonably asking what is and what is not attributable to their god. I cannot state that I do not like god doing this or that as I do not know whether such a being exists. I just pose the question as to whether it is reasonable to pick and choose which bits of the things that happen in the world are attributable to god, as this is open to debate.

"You wont be let off things" - there's the judgmental bit!! Let of from what exactly?

Where is the love of one's fellow human beings in all this? And gentleness? And kindness? Is that not all that really matters? It would be nice to read of the caring side of your religion - maybe there isn't one in your interpretation. Might it be worth looking for it?

@Soon - "If you notice all of the OT sacrificing the son bit, it was not going to happen. He was not to actually do it."

Oh, that makes it all hunky-dory then, does it? It's still an unbelievable story of bullying, isn't it?

There was a time when I read most of the bible - I still have the one I purchased in my teens when I was a believer for a couple of years - many marked verses - the type-face is a bit small for me these days, and besides I have better things to do. I consider it badly written and even worse edited.

Oh! Why don't you give it up, the lot of you?! Haven't you got anything better to think about. If not, find something.

If it gets up your nose so - why are you reading this thread Jings?

Because I couldn't believe the bl---y thread was still going!

Jingle, do you say the same on every thread which holds no interest to you?

But jingl - you started the thread! Inviting people to debate the existence of god was never going to be sorted in one page! - it has occupied millennia!

Leviticus tells us - when a woman has her period she must count seven days thrn on the eighth day go to the priest with two doves for sacrifice, he will then absolve her of her sin - her sin being her period . 24 doves a year !