Are you an ex Christian?

Nothing is sacred. Nothing is sacrosanct.

If being ex-christian means you've lost religious faith, then I'm not one because I never had any. If it means abandoning the church you were baptised into before you were old enough to know anything about it, then I am.

But many of the principles of behaviour that christians call their own are mine too because, essentially, they are universal principles.

Totally agree Baggs.

I did not really wish to challenge anyone that had no belief of GOD

However SPELDNAN you say it is silly to not be able to see something and yet believe. We can not see Air however we believe in it.

Your argument may be but we can feel Air and counter Christian argument is that we can feel the Love Of GOD. I most certainly can, every single day of my life.

You say that people that believe in GOD have closed minds and yet your mind is closed to the fact that GO may exists.

As you so rightly say we all have our own opinion but why not take a leaf out of your own book/words and open up to the thought just for one day that GOD may exist and see where it takes you.

Strange that some atheists are far more troubled by christians than christians are by atheists

I have a friend who us a Christian and believes that she along with her fellow believers will have eternal life and the rest of us won't. She believes that the Antichrist will be revealed when he ,(she?) signs the 7 year peace treaty and that that event will result in the end of times when only Christians will be saved. I find this so hard to listen to - she is a lovely person but I just can't stomach all her preachings and find it hard to take. I've tried to gently change the subject but it's difficult. I googled stuff about her beliefs but have never come across anyone else in my life who carries these beliefs and tries to live by them.

So do you judge all Christian's by your friends beliefs Smithy?

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blest,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.
By Leigh Hunt

"peace treaty"? Why would a god need one?

No need to answer. It's a rhetorical question.

But we can experiment with air and discover its properties that way. There isn't only one way of "seeing".
Which sentiment I'm sure those with faith (a way of 'seeing' for them) in god(s) will agree with.

Why should Christians be troubled by atheists? Christians have the comfort of their beliefs; atheists have nothing (though speaking personally, as an atheist I don't miss whatever it is I don't have).

And atheists should only be troubled by Christians (or Hindus or Sikhs or Muslims or Zoroastrians....) who use their faiths to justify doing harm to others.

Perhaps some christians feel pressured by atheists speaking out. They could think of it as payback time for all the christian missionising there has been (and still is: see Smithy's friend).

But they needn't feel threatened just as I needn't by christians. People talking about what they believe/think is just that if they are informing rather than proselytising, which is what I presumed this thread to be for.

There is a difference between saying - I don't believe in God

To

Believing in God is the same as believing in the tooth fairy

Both have been said here

But smithy if you are an atheist you do not believe in eternal life, do you? I could be wrong

I would just like to say that there is actually a difference between religion and believing in GOD, some people and I personally know of two people that do believe in GOD but do not go along with 'religion and all that it brings with it'

So there is no going to church or anything like that and they do have a dislike for 'religion' but as I say do have belief in GOD.

This could go on forever ..if us Christians have made atheists maybe think about the possibility that they could have GOD in their lives then that's is brilliant.

I only wish to pass this on as it has brought me much happiness.

I did actually say that I have tried to 'open my mind' to God, I have Christian friends who have tried to convert me but I just cannot find it rational and don't understand why people find the need for it. I sincerely hope there is no eternal life, and I think it arrogant of the human race to think they are so much more special than animals, insects and plants etc who don't have the brain to question the life they have been given. Oh wait! I'll be told dogs go to heaven too!
And for the record I am not afraid of Christians and don't normally argue with them over their faith. Some Christians do feel threatened by atheists though, I've had born again Christians drop me for not sharing their faith. Somehow I got involved with this thread though which is the only reason I've got into these discussions.
One thing that has always stuck in my mind:
I was training to be a nurse in the 70s and we had a talk by the chaplain. He was discussing compassion and care for patients. He said it was impossible to feel these things unless you were a Christian. I was horrified! and I've since gone on to care for people all my life -family and strangers.
But as someone said- there is a difference between the concept of God and the church.

And btw you may not be able to see air but it has properties which can easily be identified. Maybe not the best analogy. In fact there are very few 'invisible' elements in the world which cannot be 'seen' with the right instruments. And maybe in the distant future if God exists there may be a way to prove it, if there is, it will be through science of course. We'll never know but in the meantime I am yet to be convinced.

Serkeen, Im glad your belief brings you happiness and we all like to share our happiness with others. Witness the thread from the lady who is unexpectedly going to be a granny!
I have to ask though. Is it only about what makes you happy? Is there not some responsibility to carry through the demanding bits of a belief? The bits that cause you loss, sacrifice even misery. Christianity demands much in terms of self discipline and self denial, of loving others more than yourself.
For me it is this taking what you like from your faith and ignoring what you don't (I don't mean you personally - the generic "you") that I find difficult. Shouldn't it be a whole acceptance?

Yes very true Eglantine19, it is not right, taking what you want from your religion, a lot of people act in this manner

But it is why I mention the difference between Religion and GOD, because most folk find it difficult to follow Catholic rules.

I think if you choose to have a religion/believe in GOD it is about doing your best to be a good person and that is all that you can do.

When I was a child I was sent to a Nun's run private school and if I had continued to believe what those Nun's taught us, I would be a very un happy person.

But again going back to believing in GOD rather than a religion as such, as when I grew older and wiser I realised that GOD loves me, he is not sitting waiting for me to do something wrong so that he can punish me, as the Nun's would have you believe.

it is very much a personal journey and it is ultimately between you and your GOD.

Nice to speak to you Eglantine19

Yes Atari. I can relate to this, but rebelled & questioned much of it at a younger age . I still like the tradition of Churches , Chapels etc for weddings ,funerals etc , much as it is nice to have a drink in a pub rather than at home. I also like the aspirations of Christian behaviour towards fellow men, but sadly often see more of that from outside of the Church. I have read up on other faith systems & religions & find I am probably more in tune with Humanism. I really don't get the necessity of all the cruelty invoked by God in the Old Testament & then for him to show us how sorry he was by instigating & allowing his son to be crucified!

Sorry mean Atqui

Thank you mumofmadboys.

God didn't sacrifice His son to show us how sorry He was norose Jesus' crucifixion was for our salvation.

You're right Baggs that the Christian principles of behaviour are universal and not just applicable too or upheld by Christians. It is my faith in God and the relationship I have with Him which defines me as a Christian and not simply how I conduct myself, which at times is just as well.

I have drawn away from organised religion over the years. I still feel l am shaped by Christian values and take inspiration from the life and teachings of Jesus. l believe in 'God'. My evangelical brother would not see me as a Christian and would fret over my need for salvation because l don't accept the Bible literally as the Word of God, rather l take inspiration and encouragement from some of it .. and some of it not ... Common sense and awareness of the social context of writings tells me to question, weigh, sift etc. IF there is a God, l cannot think of 'him' as gender specific ...certainly not a beardy man in the sky. I am content to rest with the mystery and not lay claim to what cannot be imagined or articulated or explained. So, l am a bit pantheistic ... .God in all things. Yup, definitely a heathen and beyond redemption...

For jinglbellsfrocks, or what ever your new name is.

when you look at many who profess to be Christians you have to wonder exactly what they mean by it..take Teresa May for instance ...I wish someone would....she says she's a christian yet she punishes the poor the sick the disabled and the vulnerable while helping her rich buddies who dont actually NEED help.If thats what christianity is nowadays I'm glad I'm not one .I tend to say I'm a humanist....all the best bits of christianity as aforementioned but no dogmatic clerics or old biddies on a Sunday showing off their hats and trying to secure a place in "heaven" the same old biddies that criticise anyone that lives life differently from them,single mums,gays,etc .

Well as a Christian paddyann if your post is an example of a humanist, I'm glad I'm not one.

"dogmatic clerics"; "old biddies that criticise anyone that lives life differently from them" isn't that what you're doing? Criticising Christians because they go to church, because of what you assume they wear and in so doing live their lives differently to you?

I beg politely to differ Smileless2012, It says in the bible that God saw the error of his ways( continually asking different tribes to rise up & smote (kill). each otherHe then looked upon his world & decide he was in the wrong to do this , so , he sent us his only begotten Son to die on the cross to show us he was sorry !!!

having worked in churches for over 40 years I SEE these people