Struggling with my Christian belief

We are all his children

My Jesus died in the most horrific way.

What did He do To upset his father.

I cannot except any one who treats their children in such a way.

My Children will always have my protection.

I don't know why grandtante, but I've always believed that to be the case, that "it is the belief at the actual moment of our death". Also, that hell isn't a 'place' but is a permanent separation from God

I loved your post, especially the final paragraph.

A Jesuit father I spoke to once on the doctrine of Hell said that we are supposed to believe in Hell, but we are nowhere told that we have to believe that there is anyone in it!

In the Gospels we are told that the only precondition for salvation is that we believe in Jesus Christ, in Him as God and in his resurrection. Quite a mouthful, I know, but we do believe in it. You are worried that your children and grandchildren are not believers, but neither you or I know that they are not going to become believers, one day, do we?

To return briefly to my Jesuit confessor: He told me that there is a line of thinking in the catholic church at present, which has neither been officially accepted or denied by the church, which means we can all believe it or not, as we want, as it isn't dogma.

It is the belief that at the actual moment of our death, we are asked, by God whether we believe in Him? If at that moment we say yes, then we are among the redeemed, irrespective of what we may have done or said during our lives.

I find this comforting and I hope you will too, with regards to family and friends who do not believe. I am sure you like I regularly pray that they may come to find belief in God - that is all we can do.

We don't know what the afterlife will be like, but if we, imperfect humans, can feel that heaven won't be very nice if the people we love are not there and are never going to be there, then surely God whose love is much greater than ours, feels the same.

I think if we read any history book of that era, or even one written nearer the present, especially one that is not a contemporaneous account, then we would have good reason to doubt its veracity.

However, it is an extremely interesting account as long as we remember that.

It appears I am not alone in my doubts regarding the Bible.

No-one believes all of what is in the bible, because it is contradictory. What intelligent people do is to find the essence of what matters for leading a good life. I have several vicar friends, all of whom are absolutely clear that the bible is not the word of a god and is not to be taken literally; that it was written far too long after the events for the Chinese Whispers effect not to have crept in.

It saddens me that some people who have a faith are made miserable by it - see the OP and her concerns - or use their beliefs to endorse their unacceptable behaviours.

I have a lot more respect for those who lead a good life because they truly care, rather than because they are instructed to by folk who lived 2000 years ago.

And Luke? fom Wiki:
"Many scholars believe that Luke was a Greek physician who lived in the Greek city of Antioch in Ancient Syria, though some other scholars and theologians think Luke was a Hellenic Jew.[2][3] Bart Koet for instance considered it as widely accepted that the theology of Luke–Acts points to a gentile Christian writing for a gentile audience. Gregory Sterling though, claims that he was either a Hellenistic Jew or a god-fearer.[3]"

ps Riverwalk - crossed posts. No I didn't know that. What about Peter?

Language is so interesting. Spoken and written.
I read an article at the weekend written by someone who recently met 2 Assyrian (from Iraq) priests in New York whose written language was almost the same as that in the Yiddish shopfronts they saw there.

Some of the names of the disciples aren't hebrew names. eg James, Thomas.

Er, TriciaF you do realise that these are Anglicized versions of names such as Yacov & Tauma, that would have also had Greek & Roman influence over the past two thousand years?

Do you have to ask God's permission to say rude words .

Most people in Judea at the time of Jesus spoke Aramaic so it's assumed that's the language he spoke. It's also assumed that some of the Gospels (not just the accepted ones) were written in Aramaic but none survive (or at least none have been found). The earliest still existing fragments are written in Greek.

We can live in hope that some fragment earlier than those we already have turns up and adds to our knowledge. Think how amazing it would be to see the words written in the language they were spoken. Who knows what might still be hidden in some desert cave.

What language were the gospels originally written in?
And in what language did Jesus and his disciples speak to eachother? Some of the names of the disciples aren't hebrew names. eg James, Thomas.

Forget to add.............Amen.

On this one occasion I don't think will God will mind if I utter the word .............bollocks!

One more time.

Faith is personal and not to be attacked. Texts are texts.

You started to talk about evidence I simply carried on the discussion. You seem unable to differentiate between faith and text so brought up the subject of Godbreath. I simply pointed out that it's a translation from the Greek and has more than one accepted translated meaning.

If you feel you cannot carry on with this discussion then I'm happy to drop it.

And Vampirequeen............to be honest I don't need another of your 'I know it all' lectures. People either believe or they don't.
If you don't believe what's in the bible, that's fine with me.
I don't have the time to go into a long endless debate which at the risk of sounding like a parrot, is what I said earlier.
I'm done here. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

Well for someone who doesn't need proof you're making enough of a racket.

I never once asked for proof of God.

Godbreathed doesn't come from the original Aramaic texts but from Greek translations. The Greek word 'theopneustos' can be translated as Godbreathed or God inspired. Godbreathed suggests it is the word of God written down verbatim. God inspired suggests human input.

Your suggestion that I am asking for proof of God is based on semantics.

So let's get things straight.

I have never and would never require proof of the existence of a God/Gods/Supernatural being. Such things are based purely on faith and the question faith is to question the very core of a person's belief system. Each person has the right to believe or not believe in a God/Gods/Supernatual being.

Religious texts were written down by humans and those included in the Bible were chosen by men for a variety of reasons. If they wanted to give the laity true access to all the information they would not, for example, have left any of the Gospels out. I do not question the existence of God simply the truth of everything that has been written in his name.

Vampirequeen, you did ask for proof of the biblical texts which if you believe they are Godbreathed, is the same thing. But isn't that going round in circles anyway? The reason I don't discuss or debate is because it's endless. I'd rather pick dandelions.

I've never asked for proof of God. Why ask for proof of something that is unprovable? I simply question the literal nature of Biblical texts.

I think the Pope and the Vatican are the most corrupt organisation on earth along with other forms of organised religion. But when I look at the skill in the design and works of St Ignatious in the photo above, that's where I see proof of God.
I don't think God can be proven or denied, we're just mere human beings.
But I have been through enough to know that a divine presence has at times steered my life. I don't need proof. I know.

Yeh, I don't get it either tanith. Evidence of mans belief in God maybe. Not sure what it has to do with the man who spent his life in poverty and said he had "nowhere to lay his head"

You wanted evidence of God Vampirequeen.