The Pope

I have to echo the annoyance with 'Frankie', what's wrong with Francis?

Another here, who can't for the life of me , understand Frankie . it contains the same number of letters to type Francis

Aggie, is it important? I have only used frankie a few times, it is a term of affection , does it affect your life , your faith? No

I am sorry but it really jars

Grates with me too as does 'queenie' instead of Queen.
I read somewhere that the Pope suggested children showing homosexual tendencies should be referred to a psychiatrist. This comment was later removed from reports of his speech. Not sure if this was fake news though, seems extreme in this day and age.

Never noticed you complain when queenie is referred to as Lizzie, or Charles as Charlie sodapop, perhaps it’s the poster you have a problem with ?

Coming fron a Protestant home and marrying into a Catholic family I've been able to relate to a lot of the "circumstances" quoted on here - first time was when I heard my 15yr old cousin was sent away to a "mother & baby home" and returned 6 months later but no baby with her and it was never talked about. I then married an RC in his church but did not become an RC although I attended regularly when children were of school age. They did not attend a Catholic school so received their religious education through the church. I received a lot of support from the various priests over the years but was never asked for any donations. I have just had conversation with DH who as a Catholic boy growing up in the 30s/40s in a family of 5 children went to many camps, was taught badminton, football and swimming through the church and has had absolutely no bad memories. He also does not remember any money passing homes although it was known that the more "well-do-do" members of the congregation supported the priests as they had no real income from the church. We also fostered a boy who had been in many children's homes until aged 11yr when he joined our family. After he had been with us for around 3yrs we received a call through police/social work who were investigating allegations against on of the care worker in the home. Our boy completely refuted these allegations and we could back him in this as we had met him many times prior to the foster placement and he had done so much for us to pave the way for a permanent placement. The boy who raised the allegation had been "institutionalised" and in and out of many homes also but had never experienced any kind of family life. The case was eventually dropped but did cause a lot of harm. I hope all the principals at all levels are able now to keep a check on things but am not too optimistic about this but seriously worry about what happens abroad with children and so called "child agencies".

No maybe I haven't mentioned it Anniebach it still grates nevertheless. Just how I feel not a problem with the poster particularly.

Funnily enough I found "Queenie" grated too , " Charlie" is a problem too . Must be my dislike of "pet" names in general , and why call anyone by an "affectionate" name unless they are Family?

I agree, aggie

I have posted this before but SIL was left on the steps of a Church at a few hours old. he spent 5 years in a Jesuit Orphanage until being adopted. He has nothing but happy memories, and felt surrounded by love at all times.
After his adoption the Priest and Nun he is named after kept in touch and he visited them regularily. He was at the death bed of the Priest and looked on him as a beloved Uncle. Unfortunately my birth Mother was on the opposite end, put into a M&B home by her Grandparents where she was beaten, starved and forced to wear a paper bag over her head with Sinner written on it after she left the home.
These are people and everyone is different, it is the organisation which is at fault and little or no checking on peoples proclivities and personalities.
The whole organisation needs to take a good look at itself and change the attitude of "we know best" and cover ups.

Sadly the prevailing attitude seems to be that religious are favoured by God and therefore can't really be guilty of anything, they should be helped rather than punished.

Really humpty? I haven’t read one post which even suggests that

humptydumpty, I haven't seen anyone suggesting religions are favoured by God and can't really be guilty of anything and should be helped rather than punished.
The opposite in fact. My experience on Gransnet and in RL is that if anything people feel even more strongly that Vicars, Nuns, Priests etc. who abuse power, exploit/sexually/psychologically/physically abuse children deserve even harsher punishment than your run of the mill Paedophile (no offence intended)
anyone who has worked with survivors/victims of sexual abuse by vicars / priests will tell you that kind of abuse is particularly invidious. It usually involved youngsters like alter/choir boys or girls in faith groups. These youngsters have been brought up to believe in Jesus, in the miracles, the virgin birth and so on, rather than to believe in God but question how miracles occur. they're steeped in the magic and mystery of it all, little wonder they rarely speak out about the abuse experience until they're adults.
there we are again, hinting at why people don't speak out immediately

I think it is relevant and quite shocking that many children are indoctrinated from an early age. The Jesuits said "give me a child until he is seven and we have him for life"

Perhaps seven year olds and children under seven should be protected from indoctrination. To me it is abhorent that a small child should be labelled a "Cathiolic child" or a "Muslim child"

It is difficult to see how the influence of a religious family could be curtailed, but at least we should prevent schools from indoctrinating young children. Certainly state-funded schools should all be secular and comparative religion should be taught so that children understand that some people believe in different religions and some are agnostics or atheists.

When they are old enough to understand these different philosophies they may be able to weigh up what they have been taught at home and at school and decide for themselves.

Varian, what do you suggest Christian parents do? When they go to church tell their children they are going for a walk or to a pub? Eat meals separately from their children so they can share grace but the children not be subjected to such horror. Ban all Christian friends from mentioning they have been to or are going to the blessing of the Crib or the annual blessing of animals ?

And the Jesuits said ‘ give me a child untill he is seven and I will give you the man’

I am surprised varian that you take an innocent comment and make it so disgusting just because you have no faith please do not use any weapon to attack faith

This is not an "innocent comment" - it is a manifesto.

You really have a problem with faith varian , but for you to choose to deliberately misquote to try to prove something makes me now realise how stupid I have been

I have no problem with faith Annie.

Adults can believe what they like but I do not like the labelling or indoctrination of children. Children should be respected as their own people and given the information to decide for themselves what they chose to believe.

You have accused millions of parents of forcing a faith on their children, of brainwashing them , that is offensive

Millions of parents will explain their faith to their children, and some of them may present it as incontrovertable fact. There is nothing that can be done about that. The home and family are the most important factors in a child's up-bringing.

However it is quite wrong for the state to be complicit in indoctrinating children in any religion and to use tax-payers money to do so.

Children should grow up to be aware that although their parents may have a faith, it is for them to decide, as adults what they chose to believe.

Varian you said ‘ it is difficult to see how the influence of a religious family could be curtailed ‘ I have accepted critism from atheists on this forum with understanding and I hope respect but your critism of me as mother is a step too far. I say criticism of me because my daughters were brought up in a Christian home .

No more to say to you on this,

The fact that you as a Christian brought up your children in a Christian home is entirely as expected Annie

I have no problem with that but I hope they were educated in secular schools where they were taught about other beliefs and understood that they were free to make their own choices in matfers of faith.

This thread was enough of a trainwreck when the Catholics posting were having their own experiences in the Church dismissed, but being instructed in the theology and doctrine of their own faith is frankly disrespectful.

I avoid the threads on faith as a rule, but this one is actually quite personally upsetting and I regret having followed it over the last several days. I would urge everyone involved to respect the experiences and the faith teachings of others, and to engage as people of good intention with one another.

I respectfully post this only in the hope of urging restraint before the discussion devolves any further.