As an agnostic

Fennel in a one bedroomed council bungalow a room with an alter would be difficult , sitting on the loo looking at an alter doesn’t appeal to me

Housekeepers? People mowing their lawn? Washing their dishes? Doing their laundry? Tell that to the many parish priests/ministers who do it all themselves in between services, preparing talks, parochial work, chairing meetings, hospital visiting, and keeping the peace among all the parishioners, or whose WIVES do all those menial tasks.

GabriellaG54 you speak of the celibate priests of your childhood, who had a Mrs Doyle to keep house for them, not the C of E, Scottish presbyterian, Scottish Episcopalian, Methodist, Baptist etc etc etc churchmen.

Elegran you have reminded me of a dear friend, wife of an Anglican priest buying bright yellow winter boots in a sale snd trying to dye them brown, never since have I seen yellow and brown boots at an outdoor carol service ?

There was poverty in Jesus' day. However when someone poured expensive perfume over Jesus' feet and someone rebuked her Jesus said let her be I won't always be here for you to do this. There is a place to give to the poor and a place to aid worship with a suitable building. Gabriella although you can pray and worship God from your sitting room we are also called to be part of the Body of Christ and worship together. The church I go to has about 70 -80 there each Sunday which cannot be housed in most private homes.

I suspect the problem here is the frequent use of the word "priests" when many denominations use other terms for their celebrants/pastors. It conjures up an image of either a bishop in full rig-out processing behind an enormous gold cross with altar-boys swinging incense to all sides and jewelled statues looking on from the walls, or a black-robed curé in his cassock and biretta patrolling his parish making sure no-one is misbehaving and going home to his whisky bottle (aka the fiddler's wife).

Elegran
I speak of Catholic priests in general and the single vicars, canons and bishops of my C of E childhood and adult years.

My husband was a C of E vicar. I know a number of single vicars. No housekeepers that I know of. I think you are speaking of another era.

So you have freed yourself of guilt - would that this were so. I carry around a huge burden of guilt for the fate of so many people who live in poverty, or with overwhelming mental health problems. I guess that is why I am puzzled that this guilt is not shared by those who follow Christianity as their religion. That the buildings and the trappings seem to come first.

I think Jesus was saying you have to be uncomfortable to do the right thing - e.g. forego the comfort of worshipping with 70 others in a posh building and and sort yourselves out into small groups and worship in your homes, so that the buildings and the wealth can be put to good use by those in more need.

It is a scary and uncomfortable message that demands a great deal of its followers, and that resulted in the death of the person giving this message.

All religions seem to have giving and caring at their core, which is why they are to be respected - but they all have the tendency to avoid that central message because it is too challenging. And sadly to perpetuate their beliefs by going to war with those who do not share them - which is about as far from the original message as it is possible to get.

Many believers of all sorts of faiths have an icon or altar of some sort in their bedroom. There is no need to have a separate room for worship. Does He only hear you in a 'house' built for His glory, where the homeless are often denied shelter?

mumofmadboys
In part, yes. I do say in my childhood as well as my adult years. Of course, it was the 50s > 80s to which I referred.
When you mention knowing 'a number' of single vicars who manage household tasks themselves, that could mean any number from 1 > 100s and, I suppose, in a limited area. Where I lived, in the North of England, priests had housekeepers and some married vicars did too, as do some canons and bishops.
I've yet to hear of any one of them making headlines by laying their hands on a believer and curing their paralysis or walking on water to save a drowning migrant.

I've known a number of bishops and none have housekeepers. They have wives to share household tasks with.
The main C of E service is Holy Communion. Currently a priest is needed for such a service to consecrate the bread and wine. There are not enough priests to cover the churches let alone lots of small house groups.

I am sure healings still happen. I don't think announcing such things in papers is the way forward.

Thank you Anniebach for replying to my query. It was kind of you to do so and I’m sorry for your loss and the subsequent limitations this imposed on you. I wish you all the best with your counselling and hope you will be able to get along to your church services soon.
Actually, I probably should have sent you a private message to ask that of you. I’m fairly newish to GN and will try to remember that option if it seems more appropriate. x

Urmstongran i didn’t mind you asking, I understand why when I speak of my agoraphobia and needing to attend church, the phobia is a blip in the years of attending Chapel then Church since age 3. Thank you for your kind words.

GabriellaG54 If your childhood was as long ago as mine (1940s and early 1950s) then in that era all doctors had live-in housekeepers and/or maids, so did all professional people. Often there were more staff than the minimum, as these respected members of society had a standard of life to keep up.. Clerics of all denominations presumably had staff as well, though your experience was with Cathjolic households - I wasn't well enough acquainted with them to know, or old enough to be interested. Those were still the days of most girls working in domestic service unless they came from homes where they could get the education that would give them a profession.

Gabriella how strange that you believe in the laying on of hands for believers. Until recently I was a member of The Guild of St.Raphael,no one tried or thought of walking on water or asking if those we prayed for were believers or not.

And why think of walking on water anyway , we have life boats which can get to sea faster than me living 50 miles from the sea.

I must admit that my knowledge of the clergy is ingrained from the 50’s and 60’s.
Things must have changed since then.
Celibate priests, that must be a new phenomena. There was always a multitude of naive young boys and occasionally girls to be preyed upon when I was young.
I was surprised to learn about being made homeless when they were of no use to their respective faiths.

Very Christian that.

I was born in 1945 into a C of E household. Mother was a lapsed Catholic who had no truck with religion. I myself have no truck with religion. A belief in core values and morals and a strong belief in my own self to administer the above, were bequeathed to me by my parents. The power (as such) was given to me from birth. I do not need to ask for divine intercedence. My efforts are either rewarded or not, depending on my own physical or verbal skills and acquired knowledge or access to those who have specialist talents. Not a deity to whom no-one on earth since the 'big bang', has ever been personally introduced.
I do respect that we differ in our outlook and I'm pleased that we can discuss our differences in a civil fashion.

IMO, sometimes, just sometimes Anniebach, you talk a lot of tosh.
Lifeboats can get there quicker ?
Gordon Bennett.
There's a saying that 'you can't cure X'.

I am happy for you Gabriella we all have freedom of choice

Gabriella tosh ? I live 50 miles from the coast , you believe I can get to the sea faster than a life boat ? And I am talking tosh !

What an interesting and thought provoking post, with most of my go to grans on.
I was raised a Catholic, met some wonderful clergy, one I would definitely say was a Saint, and at the other end one was a man would should ha e been imprisoned, however most were just good,
I think Luckygirl, you and I could be soul sisters,Jesus, to me taught how I know I should live my life, if only I was good enough.
Love to you all

Anniebach
In the last 2 paragraphs of my 12:49 post, I made clear who I was talking about regarding the laying on of hands and walking on water and it wasn't you or your former fellow parishioners.
If you don't read what I write then naturally, you aren't able to understand.
I won't say more, because my intellect refuses to dumb down that comment.
Finis.

Now now! There are people that I would like to lay my hands on but the laws of the land aren’t exactly encouraging.