As an agnostic

I suspect the problem here is the frequent use of the word "priests" when many denominations use other terms for their celebrants/pastors. It conjures up an image of either a bishop in full rig-out processing behind an enormous gold cross with altar-boys swinging incense to all sides and jewelled statues looking on from the walls, or a black-robed curé in his cassock and biretta patrolling his parish making sure no-one is misbehaving and going home to his whisky bottle (aka the fiddler's wife).

There was poverty in Jesus' day. However when someone poured expensive perfume over Jesus' feet and someone rebuked her Jesus said let her be I won't always be here for you to do this. There is a place to give to the poor and a place to aid worship with a suitable building. Gabriella although you can pray and worship God from your sitting room we are also called to be part of the Body of Christ and worship together. The church I go to has about 70 -80 there each Sunday which cannot be housed in most private homes.

Elegran you have reminded me of a dear friend, wife of an Anglican priest buying bright yellow winter boots in a sale snd trying to dye them brown, never since have I seen yellow and brown boots at an outdoor carol service ?

Housekeepers? People mowing their lawn? Washing their dishes? Doing their laundry? Tell that to the many parish priests/ministers who do it all themselves in between services, preparing talks, parochial work, chairing meetings, hospital visiting, and keeping the peace among all the parishioners, or whose WIVES do all those menial tasks.

GabriellaG54 you speak of the celibate priests of your childhood, who had a Mrs Doyle to keep house for them, not the C of E, Scottish presbyterian, Scottish Episcopalian, Methodist, Baptist etc etc etc churchmen.

Fennel in a one bedroomed council bungalow a room with an alter would be difficult , sitting on the loo looking at an alter doesn’t appeal to me

Urmstongran yes I developed agoraphobia following the death of my beloved daughter, I am now receiving therapy to overcome it and when I do I so want to join again the fellowship of the church . I want to kneel at the alter again .

"With respect, spiritual needs can be met in the peace of one's own home, reading whatever book of prayer one refers to and maybe listening to suitable music.
Quiet contemplation.
There is no need to be in a grand edifice which, as another poster said, reflects the glory of God. "
I agree with you there Gabtriella.
When looking for a place to live we looked at one house, out in the country, which had a small room they used just to pray in. There was a small altar.
There's a Jewish tradition that after a family bereavement the mourners don't leave their home for a week, so people come to comfort them, bring food, and pray with them at home.

Gabriella again you have churches confused , priests and ministers in Anglican Churches and Welsh chapels usually have wives and children not a housekeeper. I have never met a priest or minister who employed a housekeeper

Anniebach I just had a thought. I note you prepare and go to mass or sit quietly in church to reflect.
Yet I assumed from other postings you had agoraphobia or similar. Or mobility issues - I thought it was your post wishing you could visit New Quay once more.
Perhaps I’ve misunderstood.

So you have freed yourself of guilt Luckygirl May I give another quote ‘ judge not less you be judged’ the church isn’t perfect because the church is people . If the church didn’t have members it would close, priests have to be paid, churches have to be maintained, no church would bring less food banks, no one to bury the dead, no building to lay a dead loved one in peace , and by this the grieving have nowhere to lay a much loved, parent, child , husband in peace. No priests to work in hospices , hospitals and prisons . Just isn’t that simple as you believe Luckygirl

Anniebach
With respect, spiritual needs can be met in the peace of one's own home, reading whatever book of prayer one refers to and maybe listening to suitable music.
Quiet contemplation.
There is no need to be in a grand edifice which, as another poster said, reflects the glory of God.
I thought the Christian church (and Welsh chapel) taught that God is within you and your actions should reflect those of which God approves.
Would your need for a building in which to sit in solitary contemplation, come before the needs of those who are truely homeless and hungry, in His eyes?
The glory, so I was told, lay in your unselfish deeds to others, not in huge buildings with embroidered, beribboned and bedecked priests preaching about caring for your fellow man, before going back to their dinner, cooked and presented by a housekeeper.
I wonder how many men of the cloth mow their own lawns, wash their own dishes, do their own laundry, or are some of those 'menial' jobs undertaken by a member of their parish not for pay, but praise and a hope that approval from on high will be forthcoming.
The nuns from my local nunnery (when growing up) were never charged bus fare when boarding. Were they better or mire deserving than us?
Neighbours saw their local priest at Christmas when he did his rounds and collected the envelopes (always stuffed with notes) sent a few weeks earlier. A nip of something was always offered no matter the circumstances of those whose thresholds he crossed.
The husband of a close friend, on more than occasion, said that he carried a torch for me, although he 'loved the bones' of his wife. He went on to say that she was never free from her religion, it stifled her in so many ways and he found it difficult to enter her world which was dictated to by the 'book' and her many, often daily, visits to church prayers.
These were good people, in their hearts and their deeds and I felt sorry that his words tarnished the view I held about their long marriage. None of their large family followed any religion although two were married in a church.
Life is always surprising us.
So many changing views, so many empty pews.

* you believe the needs of others should only be met by Christians* - that is not the case annie and I have made that clear in previous posts.

I do not think any of us are off the hook whatever our beliefs. I harangue my Tory MP about austerity - I do not think he listens. But it is the least I can do. I spent a life in social work and did my utmost for all the disadvantaged people who came my way - not motivated by religion. And not paid much!!

No - I would not have people in sleeping bags in my home - I am not that giving and unselfish. But the churches are under obligation to this principle in a way that I am not and it is central to their teachings.

Luckygirl you believe the needs of others should only be met by Christians , fair enough. It lets the majority in this country off the hook.

When attending mass I need to prepare, i need the calmness , I need to concentrate on the words ‘ the body and blood of Christ which was given for you ‘ .

You give your home to those in need , you have people in sleeping bags in you living room and bedroom then you can say ‘if I can do it so can you ‘

Yes Christ told us to give what we have to the poor, he told us ‘give to everyone who asks and if anyone takes what belongs to you do not demand it back’

Yes I fail him every day, but every day I keep trying, I will never be a perfect human being, there has only been one.

I may have got this wrong, but I have a feeling that the founder of your religion annie was very clear on putting the needs of others first. I think that is why they killed him - his message was frighteningly simple and struck at the heart of the wealthy elites.

I too have popped in to my local church for a bit of peace and quite and reflection. But I would not put that need pf mine above those of people living with poverty and other problems, as I recognise that this is what the church is fundamentally about.

There is nothing to stop people getting together to worship in churches that have other uses at the same time. I see no reason to stop them.

Luckgirl why should I be denied taking part in worship with people of all political parties and none . Why should I be denided sitting alone in church . Why should my spiritual needs be dismissed for another’s physical needs.

I said in an earlier post , twenty billion pounds has been spent over Christmas, how many people would this feed and house?

I agree that priests are poorly paid - a couple of my best friends are in that boat - and that some local churches (of all religions) do good work.

But, as a global organisation, the Christian church has been very reticent about the principles upon which it was founded and avoided radical actions to deal with their own wealth. I do not respect that.

AnnieBach, I've no idea where you get that idea from.
I was brought up in the C of E faith by my father and nurtured by my lapsed Catholic mother who, after 10 years of living and being educated in a convent, shed the shackles and shame thrust upon her by that religion, vowed never to genuflect to any deity ever again.
My first two schools were church schools and I attended services, (suitably hatted and gloved) every Sunday with my father and siblings.
Aged 16, I came home from work one day to be met by the local vicar, invited by my father to talk to me about my forthcoming confirmation and the lessons I needed to attend before that event.
During those years, I read a good many tracts from the bible. My father died the following year and that freed me to make my own mind up about religion. I had Jewish friends and friends who were staunch Catholics. I've talked to Muslims and my professional life took me into a melting pot of lifestyles so, far from being blinkered, I do have some insight. I do not read supposedly factual books and automatically believe everything written.
I am a sinner and ask no-one for forgiveness if I make no effort to correct my own mistakes. I learn every day and try to treat my fellow 'men' fairly, no matter how they may treat me.
I have my own principles and values and walk a broad path but my mind is ever open to hearing other views on any subject and modifying (or not) the codes by which I live.
We all have something to bring to the table and every morsel laid upon it is as worthy of consideration as the grandest offering.

I have no problem with the church raising money to maintain their buildings - if they did not, then the state would have to intervene. I am surprised however that the churches do not have a problem with it, as the founder of their religion was quite specific about the principles concerning posh places of worship - where 2 or 3 are gathered together.........etc. That was part of the message.

Jesus was a true radical; that is why he has been remembered. And I think the church should do some radical things: become political and lobby loudly (very loudly and constantly) for the end of austerity in the UK; make waves over global capital and the deification of financial fat cats; sell off stuff; divert their investments to major projects for the disadvantaged. These are the sort of things that Jesus wanted - but no church has the courage to actually do it.

Jesus made waves - but the church is too cowardly to do so. They might lose their places in the HofL, or subsidies for their state-funded schools.

Honestly - more people would be interested and take notice of religion if it took notice of its own teachings. As it is, many of us see it for what it is - a self-perpetuating club.

There are groups of individuals within most churches who do their best for the disadvantaged in their areas - but as a global organisation they are sadly lacking and cling on to their wealth.

Come on churches - make some waves and you will gain respect in bucket loads. Certainly from me. If the Archbishop of Canterbury announced that all churches were going to be used as permanent soup kitchens, food banks, night shelters, and that worship would take place around those living there and using the building, then by golly that would make people sit up and take notice of religion.

Religion ? The greatest cause of all wars !

It is such a big step to choose to give one’s life to God, i can understand why many are agnostic.

I'm not sure it is such a big divide Urmstongran. I think there are more agnostics than atheists out there. Definitely not two camps only

Pull down beautiful buildings where people have worshipped for years and replace with something small and ugly? Who would hold funeral services in their homes ?

I agree that old buildings are hugely expensive to keep. However cathedrals are part of our heritage and it would be a shame if they were bulldozed down to build houses / offices/ shops. However it will come in time in this increasingly secular age. Some buildings help reflect the glory of God and people are drawn to God through them. But the Church is actually made up of people and they are infinitely more important than buildings and are here to do Christ's work on earth.

This great ivied in opinion is a bit like Brexit!
I suppose one either has faith and believes in the teachings of the Bible.
Or, like me, one does not.
And never the ‘twain shall meet. It’s a big divide.

It seems to me that most of the financial problems of old churches and cathedrals is that the buildings are huge - not necessary. Most are very beautiful but built at a time when the church was wealthy.
With small congregations they could surely meet in someone's home?
The same applies to old synagogues - many have been sold off for other purposes, and smaller modern buildings built instead.