Struggling with Church.

If you have thought long & hard over this decision I would say meet with the Elder to end the relationship with the Church in a good way so that you can move on.
Are you worried that she may try to change your mind? I would still listen to what she has to say but be prepared with your answers in response

We left our church two years ago. Church elders still turn up on our doorstep unannounced, but this week we just said we were too busy to see them. It’s liberating to get away from a religious group that imposed lots of rules on us. Just say no to the invitation to meet and enjoy your life the way you want to without any guilt.

If you have made your decision then there is nothing to discuss. I would be worried if you met the elder that they might try and persuade you to stay with the church, and they may have a lot of arguments to support them in this, which you might not feel able to counter. If it was me I wouldn't meet with them.

Hilarybee the same can be said of an athesist upbringing.
I think you should be free to do whatever you like London wifi and have faith in your own feelings, so I don't really have any opinion of whether you should meet with the elder or not. I would say that you could read Alistair Mcgrath, I think called 'The Dawkins Delusion', and also debates with him and Dawkins on you tube are good. I am a church going Christian,and love it. The people I go to church with are open about doubt and always open to debate. You do not have an obligation to any church and I wish you all the best.

I'm afraid that indoctrination from a young age is very difficult to free yourself from. That may be why Londonwifi you cannot break away cleanly.

The whole of life is a journey, and we should be open to change throughout. Leaving the church shouldn’t be the point where you stop asking question and stop growing. It may be that further thought, reading, exploration etc may take you back to some form of organised religion, or it may take you further away. If you found Dawkins convincing, there’s plenty of room for thought in Alister McGrath’s book ‘The Dawkins Delusion’, for example. If you find Buddhist spirituality helpful, try meditating regularly to help develop that, or explore other paths with a similar direction, for example a Quaker meeting.

If your church is very dogmatic and rule-bound, then it may well be helpful at present to avoid intense discussion with an elder whose aim is to bring you back in. But over time, you’ll probably be able to discuss and agree to disagree - don’t lose friends over this.

I would thank your elder for their offer and decline it. Say that you are no longer a member of the church. thank them for their support in the past. And wish them all well.

I don't see any reason to talk about your new way forward.

It is all about being at peace with yourself and the way you live. Buddhism is not a religion as such...It is a way of life. Sending peace to you. You will find the answer.

Try reading Richard Rohr, a brilliant writer and a Franciscan. His writing is inspirational and answers many questions on belief and religion.
As a grown up I had to re examine my own beliefs in a grown up way and question what I had been brought up with. This is better done with a spiritual advisor as it’s not an easy journey but worth it in the end.
Specially recommended is ‘falling upward’ - a look at the first and the second half of our lives.

Follow your own heart and dont allow others to manipulate you. I always listen to others then make my own mind up. You are allowed to try other things to see if it’s right for you, sometimes you have to go down other paths to find what’s right or wrong for you.

Breaking away from the kind of church which has elders is a big thing. It must have been such an important part of your life. But if you no longer believe, it's no good staying with it. My suggestion would be to go to a Quaker meeting. The Quakers are in the Christian tradition but don't insist on an absolute kind of belief, and they are very welcoming.

If you don't believe than the threat of 'losing salvation' is empty. Why even say it? Changing your mind about religion is not an easy decision. It takes a lot of time and thought especially when you have been indoctrinated since childhood.

You can do whatever you like. You owe the church elders nothing. Presumably, you went to church because you believed in God, and it was a pleasure to go? No you feel differently, so don't go.

(a non-believer)

You have freedom of choice.
If you are not sure why not try going to various churches or better still, try and find an 'Alpha Course' - a road to discovery.
I was C of E but became a Catholic when I was 21 - never looked back!
We have a wonderful community who feel not just like friends, but like family surrounding you with love and help whenever needed. Last week, a lady who belongs to our Parish Visiting Group as well as other charitable functions was tragically killed in a road crash. The amount of love and support which has been shown to the family is phenominal.
No matter what, God loves you and will be always there just waiting for you to say yes to Him.
Never more have we needed God in our lives, than today. To me, it sounds like you are still searching - don't give up. 'Seek and you shall find.'

I have been an atheist since I was a teenager. I took RE A level at school and won the yearly subject prize- a book token- the book to be presented in a leaving ceremony. I chose Erik Van Daniken's Chariot of the Gods. That didn't go down well! There are some good debates on religion to listen to on youtube, particularly those involving Christopher Hitchens.

PS. Of all the religions I have acquaintance with, I find the Baptists the friendliest and go to several local annual functions arranged by them.

Has your correspondent thought of attending a Quaker Meeting? Many Friends, such as myself, have come to Quakers from other churches and found remarkable freedom to believe what they like and remain in the Meeting. A frequent saying is that Quakers are "rooted in Christianity, open to new light".. There is a sizeable group called Non Theist Quakers and these, again I am one, are accepted as well as those into Buddhism or even a few with modern Pagan leanings. Quakers have always punched above their weight ( though they are staunchly pacifist). Everyone in a Meeting has responsibility for it. There are no ministers, as everyone is her own priest. The British Quaker movement uses the original method of a silent Meeting, when any one is free to speak of appropriate personal experience or comment on something in the world. Sometimes nobody speaks at all and the peace of a "gathered " Meeting is much valued by Friends. It is, I suppose , a time of meditation but with the chance to share.

religion is a deeply personal thing, and I personallydon't hink anyone should be made to feel guilty for leaving a Religion.

In fact I disagree with all Religions! Not belief in God or similar - just Religion. I can't help having a deep feeling that all Religions evolved as a form of control. It is difficult to believe that the place your worship in, the clothes you wear or the practices involved make you any closer toGod then you were born to be.

Do not feel guilty. You have found your own path. Meet up for a Coffee, but make sure they are aware that any talk of Religion is off limits.

If you feel strongly that religion no longer plays a part in your life then it’s absolutely fine to stay away from all forms of church and belief structures. I am an atheist and wouldn’t appreciate being advised to try another church - for me there are simply no gods and I’m happy with that belief. It’s not a case of just finding the right church - there simply isn’t the right church because I have no faith whatsoever. It would be akin to saying to me (for want if a better analogy) ‘if you don’t believe in fairies perhaps pixies might be more up your street’.

I went to the same C/E church for 30 years and had many friends there and I had a good social life within church.

We had several vicars and I got on with them all, including the present one. I felt I had to leave last year though, because of his LGBTQ attitude; not homophobic, but that it is a sin to be sexually active in those circumstances. He is basically fundamentalist, won’t entertain the idea of female priests or serve under a female bishop..That church also won’t have anything to do with other churches now which is a great pity, as all denominations used have get togethers locally.

It’s a pity because that particular church has become vibrant with many young people; can’t think why, except it has an excellent primary school attached to it. The church I have moved to is pretty stuck in the mud tbh, but the people are friendly enough, albeit it a predominantly elderly congregation. The vicar is lovely, but I’m not getting as much out of going to church as I used to.

Anyway, sorry for the long preamble to my point. I told my previous vicar my decision and reasons, which didn’t exactly come as surprise to him. We both wanted to talk about it and had a friendly chat. He left our house still on good terms. It has meant I can still go to help at lunches for the older people and various social ‘do’s’ at that church.I can be friendly with him and his wife when we meet, and there is no awkwardness when I meet members of that congregation. I’d like to think you can leave your present church on good terms too.

As far as Buddhism is concerned, if that is what you are drawn to, try it out. My feeling is that people of all faiths and none should walk together with good will. Do what good you can in this world with understanding and kindness.

Sorry for the long post. It has been something that has caused a bit of turmoil for me..

As I have a strong faith ( never forced on others) I’m afraid I’m of the opinion you are in the wrong church. The Anglican Church I go to is so welcoming and nobody is told how they should think or worship. These last few weeks some learning disability adults have come to our church with their support worker and were welcomed by everyone . The previous church they had tried to attend wouldn’t shake their hands during the peace. I was so cross , the other church does not deserve to be called Christian, Jesus welcomes everyone and judged nobody. Have some time to think and maybe try somewhere that feels better for you . I wish you well

Cat lover, yes exactly and any other religion too
Phloembundle, you have summed up what I was trying to say brilliantly.

Hello Londonwifi. It’s up to you whether you see your elder or not. You have freedom of belief, as we all do, and it is your right to leave if you wish.

However, the fact that you say Richard Dawkins’ books have a lot to do with your decision to leave makes me wonder if you have pursued your quest for truth as far as you could. Richard Dawkins’ arguments are not as good as they look at first sight. The God Delusion is not respected by professional philosophers – in fact one atheist philosopher said that he was embarrassed by it. Dawkins was beaten in debate by fellow-Oxford academic and Christian John Lennox, and has refused to debate since.

Have you read The Dawkins Letters by David Robertson?

I can also recommend John Lennox’s books and his debates and talks on YouTube.

Isn’t what is true the most important question? Maybe you owe it to yourself to look into this further.

Everyone has a right to follow their own path and find what has meaning for them personally. It sounds as if you have found something that speaks to you spiritually in the natural world and in Buddhist thinking which is non-theistic. I do too. I don’t think you should meet the elder. You have decided to leave the path you have been on. You do not sound unsure or as if you have questions you want answered. A meeting could be upsetting for you and frustrating for the elder if her aim is to persuade you to stay within the church and you are sure you don’t want to do so. It would be pointless and could upset you both. People have made good suggestions here about how you could decline her invitation gracefully. Good luck. Your thoughts and beliefs may change again in the future. None of us can make ourselves believe something we don’t or make other people believe the same things that we do.

Here are some discussion and debates between Christians and non-Christians that might help.

www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes