Kill Coronovirus with Prayer

God helps those who help themselves.

I thought the purpose of prayer was to bring people together to work as a community to cope with a crisis. It is not an alternative to proper medical treatment.

Vampire queen and elegran - good posts which I completely agree with.

Trouble is, "SirChenjin" that even if (and it is by no means conclusively proved) God is making all the decisions, it is his human sidekicks who carry them out. Every divine decree since time immemorial has been filtered through a human brain and spoken by a human voice, or written down or engraved on stone tablets, by a human hand.

Other human minds have interpreted and expounded those decrees, and yet others have explained those interpretations in different terms. When the explanations are translated into other languages, for the benefit of later civilisations or foeign missions, the translations are always only approximations of the original sentences, whose meanings even in their original laguages may have changed since they were written down.

Language is a living thing and is always changing.

I actually believe that when we die we will all cease to exist, but respect those who believe in an after life.
For myself I cannot envisage the type of God as portrayed in the bible, as an all powerful, all knowing, vengeful, cruel, jealous God, but at the same time expecting unconditional adoration, worship and praise from his faithful followers.
Uncomfortably like a dictator in my eyes.

I’m sorry if I caused any offence, it definitely wasn’t my intention. I shall leave the discussion now.

Of course Elegran - but that's very different to the claim from endless that she's not making decisions, her god is. She is free to believe that she has no free will, others like me with no faith believe that's rubbish. We are all entitled to our private beliefs and it's often best that we keep them to ourselves.

To be fair, that kind of God is only in the Old Testament. The New Testament (or the "New Relationship" with God) is about how when Jesus took upon himself the responsibility for the bad deeds of all those who believed in him and asked him to do so, their relationship with God changed, so that they would not be punished for their previous sins.

However a lot of people don't go along with the idea that God will be waiting for them at the pearly gates with the big red book of "This is your Life", ready to pull the lever that opens the trapdoor to eternity in the everlasting bonfire, and that the fear of this is the only thing that keeps everyone from unlimited crime. They believe rather that everyone has a responsibility to everyone else during life, and that death is the end.

However, many of the "saved" would rather the unsaved met the angry Old Testament God than the loving New Testament one. Serve them right! they think, Why should we abstain from all the deadly sins and do all that good, then not get any preferential treatment? We must remind them of how angry God will be with them! Hellfire awaits!!

Age has taught me to be wary of those who publicly vaunt their religious beliefs and who try to convince us of their overarching "superiority & goodness". There have been too many occassions when they've been found to have feet of clay.

I'm sure everyone who believes in a god has a slightly different interpretation of their holy book and what it might mean or not mean for them - it's really of no interest to me.

Elegran yes, The Bible as history is a very interesting series of books whether or not one believes.

However, the Book of Revelations is at best a message from someone who fervently believed what he wrote, at worst a fantasy and a way of controlling people by fear.

I posted before I read your posts in full, vq and Elegran but shall read them in full and properly later.

Thank you, they look very interesting.

Thank you NannyC2. People will believe what they want to believe though. I, personally, keep an open mind but would like to think I lean more to believing than non believing. Look how many people when faced with difficulties pray! Whether it is to God or some other 'being' they start with OH God help me!

I once watched a programme - scientists versus God - for every situation, scientists had an answer...except for one! Who created the universe! It was mind blowing to watch.

Nobody actually knows do they?

I will continue to pray.

I believe prayer can be powerful for the individual, but does not change things materially.
Scans were taken of monks and religious people’s brains and the spiritual part, as it were, was lit up. In atheists not so. I truly believe some people have a calling to religious feelings and for those who do not feel this, nothing will change it.

Brain scans show changes for people who meditate but have no religious beliefs hollysteers, in a very similar way to those who pray.

Trouble with our ideas of religion is that we got them when we were young hence the old man in the sky ideas. But as we grow up is it not worth looking again at faith in a grown up way. Alpha is good at this and starts from an empty page and hopefully starting again to undo some of the nonsense we were taught. After each Alpha session there is room fur discussion and straight questions and answers. I had preconceived ideas about it but gained a lot of self knowledge.

A few years ago I looked at religion as an adult who had been in it for most of my life and realised that I had been indoctrinated and, to my shame, whilst as a primary school teacher had helped to indoctrinate the next generation.

Now I see things differently. I'm not sure about a supreme being but if there is one she's definitely not the one that the mainstream religions describe and worship.

This thread has popped up again and it made me think that I haven’t read anything from our spiritual leaders as to how we can cope with this crisis. All I’ve seen is that churches services have been cancelled but maybe I’ve just missed anything else.

Justin Welby has suggested that when churches close we could pray at home and then go and help a neighbor or ask someone in need how we can be of service

When I went into nursing I was a church going christian, baptised, confirmed and married in church.
As I progressed through my training I became more and more convinced that there really was no such thing as God.
God would never allow babies and children to suffer with such horrible diseases or strike down adults with crippling afflictions.
Whatever you do during this terrible outbreak do not rely on the power of prayer alone.

I am agnostic; but took comfort from those who were praying for me - and indeed still are - at the time when my OH died. The comfort was in knowing that they were thinking of me and wishing me well - so in a sense the prayer did have some power.

But in this instance I do not think prayer regarding this pandemic is the route to getting rid of it.

Pray if you will for those who are suffering from it in whatever way, and tell them you are doing so - this will bring them comfort. But I do think that we need to rely on science and human action to bring this scourge to an end.

I shudder at statements like the OP's post. What can they be thinking of? Compassion and kindness are what is needed at the moment.

God has given us scientific brains to us to the best of our abilities. Prayer and science can work along side each other. The use of one does not deny the value of the other.

As a non believer I personally do not think that any supernatural power is listening when we pray, however I believe prayer can change the person who prays, in the same way that I think the Buddhist meditation which I practices changes me.

Meditation for me helps to focus and motivate me, and Metta meditation for example, motivates feelings of compassion, and to wish the best for others and oneself. It helps to diffuse unkind feelings towards others, which I'm sure as humans we all have at times.

I am happy when Christian friends pray for me, because it means that they are wishing the best for me.

The most help in the current crisis will come from within ourselves, and other skilled humans, and I am not holding out for any supernatural help.

NannyC2 I agree with you about faith and have been saying all along that fear is the worst thing anyone can do to their immune system. Fear is the direct opposite of faith and we are taught in the Christian faith that faith comes from reading the bible.

It is up to Christians in these dark times to shine a light, particularly as the church leaders seem to be a bit quiet and there is no access to a priest or vicar as there would normally be in times of trouble.

I realise this will offend some people and those are the people who won't benefit from it. You can't help those who don't want to be helped- but there are those who do.

I don’t think NannyC was shining a light at all.

I think her post was a load of superstitious fantasy and I’d still like to know what one of the most corrupt, vicious and deceitful monarchs England has ever known had to do with a revelation from God.

Or the priest that faked his own stigmata.

By their fruits ye shall know them.........

The facts were not correct either. The Virgin Mary was not the first disciple, according to the Bible. That privileged name belongs to Mary Magdalene.
If one believes or not, then this kind of incorrect superstitious rubbish is liable to put people off.