Catholic Church.

I understood the original purpose and was thankful it had moved on .

vampirequeen

It wasn't just the Church. The State was complicit too. It was a State/Church partnership. Even now the State is covering up for and protecting the Church.

Indeed.

AGAA4 - Your experiences are shocking. Now I'm wondering if my mother was "churched" after she had us, if this was a catholic thing as well. She never mentioned it, in spite of having a bit of a love/hate relationship with the catholic church. She was always telling me women were treated as second class citizens and St Paul was a misogynist, whilst simultaneously going along with a loads of it.

Anniebach

Women in 2021 condemning women of 50 years ago and earlier.

I don't think that is true. Most of us have pointed out that these were different times. That, however does not mean we can condone the actions even if we try to understand the circumstances.

I had to be churched before I could visit my Grandmother. This was in 1968. When I had my next child in 1969, a vicar came to the hospital and churched those who wanted it in the day room. Gran was Greek Orthodox and apparently they could not attend church until 1 year after the birth of a child.

My Gran talked about Churching when Mum had my sister. It’s in lots of religions. When I read The Ritual Bath by Faye Kellerman it talked about the mikvah, ritual cleansing of Orthodox Jewish Women after birth.

the mikvah is used by orthodox jewish women after each menstrual period.
so that she will be cleansed, and can resume contact with her husband.
even everyday contact is not allowed til then, eg he cannot hand her a book, he will put it on a table.

The Irish State saying that everyone is responsible removes the blame from the Church and State. Yes people sent their daughters to these places and turned a blind eye to what went on their but they had been conditioned to do so through their Church based education. The State and Church colluded to control the Irish people through the use of religion. No one questioned the Church therefore no one questioned the State.

Even now the State is protecting the Church from compensation claims.

I think we have to remember that 'unclean' did not necessarily mean dirty in ancient times. It could mean ill or, as in the case of a new mother and child, not yet able to undertake the full range of activities previously expected. Churching was usually done about 6 weeks after the birth which coincides with the length of time for the womb to heal and sexual activity to resume. Nowadays, with modern medicine, this is less of a problem. It gave the mother time to bond with the child and establish breastfeeding. Sexual relations were resumed after churching when there was less risk of infection. Churching is available in a range of denominations.
The Church may not have sent these women to the homes but they certainly treated them harshly once there and they must bear the blame for that.

vampirequeen everyone is to blame is not removing blame
from the church and state .

If as you say ‘the parents turned a blind eye they had been conditioned to do so through their Church based education’
are you claiming all parents in the U.K. whose daughters went
to homes for unmarried mothers had a Church education?

Vampirequeen, there never was any division between being Irish and being catholic. The cruelty to those who trangressed the rules ingrained in the people first and then the church and state because of this indivisibility between church and nationality cannot be allocatted between church, state and people. They arose form the culture and the culture was indivisible from the religion.

Sounds a bit like the Apostles Creed

I dont believe that Monica,the Irish are no different to any others some of my Irish relatives are protestant they had the same attitude to unwed mothers and that wasn't church led .Look at NI now when the anti same sex relationships and anti abortion lobby is from the Protestant community

.On the other side my mothers family were staunch Irish Catholics...mass every day no meat on Fridays etc.They kept their illegitimate GD and raised her with their youngest daughters but she knew my Aunt was her mother .That wee girl is in her 80's now so it was a long time .I always find these generalisations about Ireland annoying .Its my second home

paddyanne there will always be exceptions to any rule. But when you are talking about a society as a whole generalisations have to be made. The pressures of society led to conformism.

The usual way to deal with an awkward problem was to send the 'miscreant' to England, out of sight, out of mind.

On a different aspect of the same problem, many young people were dedicated to the church to become religious, at birth, having a religious in the famy brought status and solved a lot of inheritance problems. If the young person morally blackmailed into becoming religious,either refused to enter the religious life or started but walked out, they too got sent to England. I met several such girls in London in the 1960s.

If the State blames everyone then there is no one group to blame. This means that no one can be sued or held accountable. This is yet another way of the State protecting the Church. Some people have been through the courts and been granted compensation. None of the compensation has ever been paid. The children's bodies are still in the pits they were thrown into. OK so they've put a garden of remembrance over the top now but those little ones were all but tossed away like so much rubbish. No organisation should get away with that.

So it’s about money again .

I dont think compensation cases such as this are ever about money, they are about seeking justice and I guess most importantly about being believed.

I was not churched in the accepted sense of the word, but did have a church blessing to give thanks for a safe delivery and a healthy child.

Galaxy it hasn’t been denied , it is believed , what else is there apart from money ?

Justice and to have the story told in public.

Just going off slightly but still under the heading of 'Catholic Church' why aren't priests allowed to marry and have families when in the Bible it says 'Go forth and multiply' - does this mean have a family (which includes a wife/partner)? Have I got it wrong or misunnderstood. Why are they forbidden to get married - does anyone know?

Galaxy would you explain what you mean by justice ?

Did it happen - yes. Has anyone denied it happened - no.

Is anyone who suffered not free to publicly tell their story - yes .

That someone is held responsible and pays a price for it. I dont necessarily mean a monetary price.

Newatthis I asked your question of an Anglican priest, a
Catholic priest and several Nuns, all gave the same answer -
they can give all to the service to God and to man,

My parents were Catholics from Southern Ireland. We went to Catholic schools here in England. The nuns (with one or two exceptions), priests and Marist brothers who taught us were frightening.
My mother had seven children and a drunken, violent husband. Nuns regularly used to visit the house trying to get her to give funds to the church when she could hardly feed her children.

It`s called being brainwashed imo.
Mostly made up by priests/pastors/fathers and daft old wives tales.