I wish that I had a Faith

Silverlining, that is true. If we are to progress beyond small talk we must risk divisions of opinion, or else we can never learn from others's experience.

I enjoy hearing about what others believe and debating about their faiths but have never been attracted to any faith myself. I was raised CofE so that probably explains it. My grandmother had a deeep belief in Godbut only went to church for weddings and funerals. I dont think I could even belong to any organised religion.

Pagans - a friend is one. Believes its that the whole of our natural world, including us, and animals, have a sort of "spirit of life" which we must care, tend, and celebrate. Very sympathetic to this POV.

Franbern, I think that your comments were patronising, but they arise from a misunderstanding of faith and an acceptance of something beyond us, a sense of the spiritual.

For a start, many people who have faith or a sense of the spirit do not believe in A God (or Gods) as such. One major religion, buddhism, does not have a God. Buddhists regard the Budda as a wise source of offering a way or ways through life and a number of interpretations of what happens when we die. but he is not A God.

Far from some kind of childish and non critical or total acceptance of a creed, for many an opening to that side of life, a spirit at work amongst us, demands a great deal of one.

It demands study and trying to answer some of lifespan's deepest questions. Why is there so much suffering?. what does happen if anything when we die? How can we live our lives in respect of this responsibility? what is the purpose of our particular life on earth? How do we use our resources? How do we live with conflict? How do we understand the relationship of psychology to faith?

He can we respect and appreciate people both of faith nd with no faiths?

I was brought up in a very definite atheist family, which has had the advantage of having to find my own way and not take on what you appear to suggest, cookie cutter answers to life's bigger issues. However I would say that my parents were unwilling to engage not only with these with faith (except he Quakers, because they had peace work in common, but they were very patronising )

Yet when my Dad died suddenly when I was 20 and my sibs 14, and my mum went into mental hospital, it was the Quaker pastoral care person who visited; she imposed nothing, but listened, and cared.

We can't dodge conflict in "politics, religion, and sex". (and a great many other matters)

Its how we deal with this conflict that matters.

I think its time to leave Franbern alone now.

If posters are entitled to defend their views about supernatural beings and "something in the great beyond", she's entitled to say its poppycock.

Religion gives many meaning and value to their lives, and we are all entitled to navigate life in the best way we can without judgment, unless it is harmful to others.

I believe it is possible to live ethical and fulfilling lives with reason and empathy, and a concern for other humans and sentient beings, without the need for a religion. Life is all the more meaningful to me because I believe this is the only life I shall have.

I believe that science can make sense of the world, and it’s evolution, but with the proviso that certainty of opinion is always open to revision and correction.

Humanism is a joyous alternative to religion, and I think there is a growing number of people who believe as I do, but do not label themselves “humanist”.
There is a quiz to try if you are interested on the Humaist U.K. site How humanist are you?.

I sometimes wish I did, it must be a comfort.

I love the sort of hymns we sang at school, and if I had a lovely little old church a short walk away, like a dd does (she doesn’t go) I think I’d be tempted to go to Sunday Evensong - as long as it was traditional, no happy clappy stuff. Hers also has a lovely old pub more or less opposite! And every Wednesday night, if I’m in dd’s garden, I can hear the bellringers practising. 🙂

I was brought up a Quaker and attended a Quaker school for a couple of years.
I am still a Quaker.
One of the very few beliefs we have is that of the "inner light" or seeing good (that of God) in everyone.
Sometimes it's hard.

Quaker meetings are various. They are based on silent worship but anyone present is free to speak or "minister".
American Quakers, of whom there are many more than in Britain, sometimes have programmed meetings with paid ministers and hymn singing

DH became a Quaker but he always missed the music so compensated by joining a choir and also singing Taizé each week. He was brought up Episcopalian.

These days I seem to go to funerals in churches frequently. They all have something to offer. The buildings are often beautiful but I prefer the simplicity of the SOF. (Society of Friends, Quakers)

If I don't go to Quaker meeting for a period, I miss it. I do need that peace in my life, that centering down and I'm always glad to have gone.

We are all different and have different needs.

I love visiting old churches, and mosques too, and get a real feeling of awe and wonder, not of God, but at the history, decoration and splendour of the buildings. I also like some hymns and choral music, and Gregorian chanting sends tingles down my spine.

Oh! And meditation takes the place of prayer in my life 😀

Franbern. You clearly state that those who have faith "have been unable to grow up and become proper adults", and then not only appear surprised that your attitude is described as rude and unpleasant, but also try to claim that you are "tolerant". Stop kidding yourself, and excuse my huge belly laugh.

Same here Farzanah

Most people seem to attempt a life that is lived in a 'Christ like manner' for want of a better expression. Most of us know what is right, and how we should behave, however often we fail or fall down. This is how I try to be, having found organised religion impossible to reconcile with Christ's teaching. I am not deeply religious, but simply try - failing horribly quite a lot of the time I fear. Kate has had a terrible experience- how much were those cruel people living life in a Christ like manner?

Volver. If Franbern had merely stated that in her opinion religious faith was poppycock, I don't think many would have taken issue with that. However, what she actually did was to personalise it, and to insult those who have faith by stating that "they have been unable to grow up and become proper adults". Your post is in effect defending that stance. I wonder why that is? I repeat, no-one has any problem with straightforward expressions of opinion. Descending into personal insult is a whole different ball game.

Yep.

I stand with Franbern

I'm fed up with "expressions of opinion". There are facts in the world, and all the opinions that ignore those facts aren't very valid opinions.

Had any more thoughts about Einstein?

Volver. Got you sorted now, thanks. Dual personalities, anyone? More belly laughs. [grin}

Gosh. I'm so glad that so many posters think they've got my personality sussed this weekend.

Effectively comparing religious belief with a child’s belief in Father Christmas and Peter Pan is insulting. If someone has no faith that’s their choice and they can surely state that fact without belittling those of us who do have a faith which sustains us.

Volver. You say : "There are facts in the world, and all the opinions that ignore those facts aren't very valid opinions." Surely what you meant to say that was that your (and Franbern's) opinions are actually facts, and that anyone who dares to disagree with you is just basically wrong. Such a mature mindset. Hilarious. Just my opinion, of course..

Oh no. I really don't want to have the "opinions vs facts" chat again, but I will if you need me to....which I think you do...

Well said, Germanshepherdmum. Disappointing that there are those on this thread who are clearly incapable of differentiating between a straightforward expression of opinion, and descending into personal insult. It takes all sorts, I guess..

Anyone can believe what they like, if it doesn't harm anyone else.

My opinion [cough] is that people who rely on believe in the supernatural to get them through the day, have an immature reliance on something that doesn't exist.

It's a shame if you're offended, but there we are.

It seems so NanaDana, but thank you.

Volver (et al). No thanks. You walked, wide-eyed and legless into checkmate with your ridiculous claim that your opinions are actually facts, so I see no need to continue. Game over. Don't take it personally. P.S. Margarine is healthier than butter/smoking is good for your lungs/the world is flat... these were all "facts".

Oh dear....

I had this discussion earlier this week, but anyway...

None of those things were facts, they were assertions which were subsequently disproved. And very, very few people thought the world was flat.

Mind you you thought Einstein believed in God, so your grasp of scientific thought is not great, is it?