I wish that I had a Faith

Fro quaker Faith and Practice, 16.24 (Its a book where thoughts have been shared over centuries and is reviewed frequently and updated)

"Science and religion have much in common. They are communal activities and involve a search for some greater truth. The sharing of ideas is fundamental to both. The discipline of science can make a valuable contribution to religious thought; critical honesty, the willingness to abandon old ideas and modes of thought when fresh insight demands it and the centrality of experience as an arbiter of truth are as important in one as in the other. In both the scientific and religious searches for truth, the implications of current beliefs are explored to see where they lead. Beliefs are not just safe ledges in an uncertain reality, but rather handholds from which further heights can be reached.

Eleven Quaker scientists, 1989

Grammaretto I'm with your DH's on Taise Music!

I prefer to sit in little old churches tho of course the cathedrals have much beauty. these buildings people have worshipped for centuries, generation after generation of prayer, births, marriages, deaths, leaves a sense of peace for me.

volver3

Anyone can believe what they like, if it doesn't harm anyone else.

My opinion [cough] is that people who rely on believe in the supernatural to get them through the day, have an immature reliance on something that doesn't exist.

It's a shame if you're offended, but there we are.

I do not believe that it is quite that simple to hold the opinion that 'people who rely on belief in the supernatural to get them through the day, have and immature reliance on something that doesn't exist'. If explored from a broad and balanced perspective, we are not all the same. There are many people who are bereaved or who are facing life changing events who are in need of a faith to 'get them through' the day because they are alone/they may not be as strong or educated or worldly as those who think they have all the answers. You will note that I use the word 'think' as, at the end of the day we are all individuals who bring a different life world experience to a context and none of us are the same. Who are any of us to say what is right and wrong in a certain situation and don't many of us need crutches to get through the day from fags to booze to anything addictive?

Are you saying some people are religious because they are less well educated?

Are you likening religious belief to fags, booze or something addictive?

Please note everyone: I didn't say that.

You thought it though didn’t you? You know full well that that isn’t what LRavenscroft meant. Why must you persist in deriding those who have faith? Especially those who are bereaved or facing death, to whom faith brings comfort?

LRavenscroft that’s a really good point you make.
I’m not a churchgoer but think the Christian message isn’t bettered by any other religion.
I like the Quaker thing of sitting in silence tho, better than anything else.

Don’t flatter yourself that you know what I think GSM.

LRavenscroft wrote:

There are many people ... in need of a faith to 'get them through' the day because ... they may not be as... educated ... as those who think they have all the answers.

and

many of us need crutches to get through the day from fags to booze to anything addictive?

That’s pretty plain.

This is not a chat site for religious people. I’m not about to log on to such a site and tell them all how I disagree with them. But this is a site for people to discuss things. I’m under no obligation to pussyfoot around or to spout platitudes. Nor am I going to censor myself for writing what I believe to be the truth.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Calling another poster a troll is not done NanaDana. Suggesting someone has multiple IDs is even worse.

I have faith. I do use it as a crutch and have no shame in that.
It’s not a get out of jail free card. Doesn’t mean those with faith don’t suffer bereavement, loss, tragedy or disaster any more or less than those of no faith.
Anyone can and will obviously say what they want on this site (unless banned by GN) it’s just that some of us try to do so without resorting to ridule and mocking others with a different opinion.

Fanny forgot to say thank you for the

Well said Doodle.

NanaDana volver3 isn’t a troll but is a long time poster and it is discourteous and wrong to state this. She/he is posting legitimate views here, as we are all entitled to do, and with which some may agree.

Discourteous ……showing rudeness and a lack of consideration for other people. Should that not also apply to some other posters Farzanah? Or are they exempt from your criticism?

Farzanah. At no time did I describe any specific individual as a Troll. My comments were purposefully generic. From your response, you have totally missed the point which I have been making about certain posts here. No-one, myself included, takes issue with the expression of "legitimate views" here, or with expression of strong opinions about subjects under discussion. What is unacceptable is when such discussion becomes personal, and descends to personal insult and ridicule. Others have also felt the need to point this out to the poster in question. Such belittling remarks have no place on GN, and I am surprised that you or anyone else would feel the need to defend such unacceptable, hurtful behaviour. That is truly discourteous.

Thank you for your comments Farzanah.

NanaDana
At no time did I describe any specific individual as a Troll.
No you didn’t. The follow up was interesting.

My friend, goes to Quakers, and she really,really values the meetings…just saying…..
I find silences, quite uncomfortable personally..🤫

Mollygo. Yes, the follow up was interesting. Someone else actually made a cap and decided who it fitted. Irony?

Shinamae

My friend, goes to Quakers, and she really,really values the meetings…just saying…..
I find silences, quite uncomfortable personally..🤫

I love it...because being with people and not having to talk when you feel comfortable enough with them is like not having demands on me to have to respond, but certainly not feeling alone. Horses for courses, tho.

I agree with your opinion Volver.

Do you agree with me that the justification for God is man's everlasting quest for deity?

The real atheist then is not Volver or me, it's the man who believes he bloodywell knows the truth.

And yet the following lyric I have just copied and posted for the Gransnet lyrics game makes me shiver with appreciation:

And He will raise you up on eagles' wings
Bear you on the breath of dawn
Make you to shine like the sun
And hold you in the palm of His hand

We need to be careful not to set in place false idols.

NanaDana

Farzanah. At no time did I describe any specific individual as a Troll. My comments were purposefully generic. From your response, you have totally missed the point which I have been making about certain posts here. No-one, myself included, takes issue with the expression of "legitimate views" here, or with expression of strong opinions about subjects under discussion. What is unacceptable is when such discussion becomes personal, and descends to personal insult and ridicule. Others have also felt the need to point this out to the poster in question. Such belittling remarks have no place on GN, and I am surprised that you or anyone else would feel the need to defend such unacceptable, hurtful behaviour. That is truly discourteous.

Others have also felt the need to point this out to the poster in question.

So despite your disingenuous protestations to the contrary, you were talking about a particular individual then?

Caleo

I agree with your opinion Volver.

Do you agree with me that the justification for God is man's everlasting quest for deity?

The real atheist then is not Volver or me, it's the man who believes he bloodywell knows the truth.

Thanks Caleo.

I'll have to think about your question!

The pacifist Quakers do like to have a good rammy, as only Quakers know how, between the Christocentrics (who believe that Quakerism is essentially Christian) and the Universalists (who believe that Quakers take the best elements of all faiths and none), the Theists (who believe in the conventional God) and the Non-Theists (who believe it's more complicated than that) and the non-Deists (who don't believe in God full stop).

The joke is that there are Quanglicans, Quatholics, Quews, Quslims, Quindus, Quddhists, Quagans and Quatheists. They may draw the line at Quatanists, or maybe not as they haven't deliberated on that yet at three successive Yearly Meetings. Essentially there's room for everybody.

I'm sorry LHD, but now I'm put in mind of the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front... 😏