I wish that I had a Faith

I am puzzled Fanny when people say, as you have, that you wish you had a faith.

I've known since I was a little girl that there is no deity or supernatural force guiding us. I don't know subconsciously that there is a deity, and ignore it, neither do I need such a thing as faith to sleep better.

Its like Pascal's wager - you might as well believe in God because if he's there, you'll get into heaven, but if he's not then nothing is lost, and you die happy. (I paraphrase!). But you don't decide to believe, you either do or you don't, I think. A good friend of mine, now a church minister, told me she thinks she's failed with me because she can't make me see what is, to her, so obvious. We're still very good friends, of course.

Same, in my mind, with faith. If you don't have it, why search for it? If its belonging that is missing in your life, I'm sure there are many ways to find that, that aren't related to religion?

I don't believe in any deity either. I believe we're on our own.

I think until there is a scientific explanation for absolutely everything, people will look for an answer to that which we can’t explain. It’s human nature to want to understand things, it’s what drives us to research.
Many religions are based in explaining the inexplicable, such as the cargo cults, combined with our need for social unity and a combined goal.
I’m getting myself confused here.
I just wish I could take that leap of faith.

Kate1949

I don't believe in any deity either. I believe we're on our own.

But we aren’t alone, we have all history and science behind us and the knowledge that we are backed by science and our creative imagination is indeed powerful.

That is all we need as humans. We have always had our strength and ingenuity to fall back on.

FannyCornforth

I'm not sure that I do need to believe in any diety.
I just think that maybe there is an element of myself that is lacking
That's why I'm attracted to Catholicism, they seem very attuned to the spirit.
I've never understood what 'God the Spirit' is.
I think that I've always had a belief that faith is a human made construct to fulfill a human need.
I would love to be wrong

Hi new here. Prompted to join as I felt sad that this Easter Sunday thread ended with ‘there is no god’. I am a born-again Christian and echo Woodhouse in knowing there is a God.
I feel a major problem with the church is poor teaching about ‘God the Spirit’ – so this is a reply to FannyCornforth to help her understanding. Jesus lived, Jesus died – but rose again (belated Happy Easter everyone) – and by the way He is still alive! His message is perhaps ‘confusing’ as He doesn’t ask use to follow a set of rules or even follow His apostles but simply follow Him. This means a relationship directly with Him. Clearly in his physical, human form this is impossible - 6 billion people on the planet now! So His human form ascended to ‘heaven’ (another ‘dimension’ if you like) such that He could release His Spirit (that is the Holy Spirit) to all mankind. Now we can meet with God through His Spirit. In Paul’s letter to the Romans writes about being led by the Spirit – this is how Christians follow Jesus (have a read). We can do this today just as the first Christians did (i.e. in the Bible). Have to say, the Holy Spirit is not easy to define as He is not physical. Maybe Grandman70s feels the Spirit through Hymns and Kate1949 through church surroundings.
If you are not told about the Spirit then Jesus becomes an historical figure (i.e. ‘dead’) and the Bible just another book of rules to follow. Church becomes ‘legalistic’ (or worse – run by non-believers to their own benefit) and people lose faith… as in many posts above.
I would echo DiscoDancer1975 and poshpaws encouraging you to pray to Jesus – ask Him about the Holy Spirit. Actually, I was a bit like you – went to Sunday School, etc. wanted to ‘follow the rules’ but realised I wasn’t able. Then I met with some Christians who advised I pray and ask Jesus to come and help me live His way. He did - and is still helping 40 years later! Pray to Him and your wish will come true – you will have a faith.

Hallelujah Holysox, thank God literally, we don’t have to rely on humans to see us through. History has shown over and over...that this’ll never happen. Just look at the last year!!

But the thing that's got us through the last year are people who have given up their time for us, people who have disregarded their own safety for us, and most of all the scientists and medics who have treated us and who have developed vaccines and treatments for this terrible disease.

Its the humans that are seeing us through.

I don't have any faith either - nor have I ever felt the need for one. I was made to go along to Sunday School every week with my granny - it was my father's concession to her after adamantly refusing to have me christened (his view was that once I was old enough to understand, I could choose my own religion - or none). However, even as a young child, I quickly realised there was something far wrong - I was a very questioning child, and this was actively discouraged by those in charge. You had to "believe" - and that was it.
On the other hand, I respect those who have a faith, and I find religious buildings and traditions fascinating in their own way - but only as an outsider looking in!

Just don’t give up. I came to believe in Jesus Christ in my 50s and I am so grateful for that gift. I had never believed before that, though I would have liked to. Nothing I had done gave me faith it kind of descended on me after I truly believed that I had sinned as we all do. My work was in a helping profession so I kind of thought I had ‘earned’ entrance to heaven if such a place even existed. Wrong, wrong wrong. I had to become humble and accept I was no better than anyone else - then I found I believed, quite suddenly and dramatically for me. I cried and my husband wondered what on earth had happened. I can’t explain it really but I am and always will be grateful. It changed my life. Look at the their on the cross. Talk about last minute conversion. Where there’s life there’s hope you could say.

Alegrias1

But the thing that's got us through the last year are people who have given up their time for us, people who have disregarded their own safety for us, and most of all the scientists and medics who have treated us and who have developed vaccines and treatments for this terrible disease.

Its the humans that are seeing us through.

Absolutely - I’ve been reduced to tears several times over the past year at the sheer goodness of people who’ve been there for us. Nothing heroic but everyday kindness and I would say love. From the first bag of lockdown shopping ( before we got a slot) accompanied by a bunch of daffodils ( it was the daffodils that did it) through many doorstep offerings and acts of kindness throughout the year and it still continues. Then all those providing services for us with some literally risking and sacrificing their lives. And not forgetting the people in the back offices often forgotten and unsung who kept as many wheels turning as possible.

This last year has shown us the infinite capacity for caring that exists in humans and I believe in that - those who have just seen this year as an opportunity to benefit themselves/ their friends are ever present of course but it’s the former that makes life worth living

Their = theif

I believe in God. It’s not always easy. I have had doubts and still do.
Belief in God does not mean that you don’t suffer pain, grief or loss. It doesn’t mean you go through life with a happy smile on your face because nothing in the world is wrong.
I have read the points made about humanism and agree with it all mostly.
I try to think of others, do good. Try not to harm others
I feel slighted on occasions, anger, all the human emotions but I am a better person because of my belief because it makes me think twice sometimes about what I’m about to say or do.
Something really funny, I won’t say on the off chance that it might hurt someone, something I’m justifiably angry about but won’t react because it might just be the last straw for that person on that day. Of course I don’t always win that battle with myself.
There are some awful, evil, cruel, abusive, selfish, spiteful people within the Church and community. As in all aspects of life, there are good people and bad but they are people, not God not Jesus.
Many comments on this thread about dislike of faith relate to the actions of people acting under the name of faith.
All I can say is in my case it’s not necessarily a choice.
If something happens in my life and my world rocks a prayer is in my mind before I have a chance to think. If you think I’m using God as a crutch to get through life you are absolutely correct. I’d find it hard to walk without him. Has my life been one of no troubles or worries because of my faith, absolutely not. But it helps me. I feel God is there. Once or twice I have felt such a feeling of utter peace, only maybe for a minute or so, but the memory of those times stays with me. Peace is what I’m aiming for.

I used to belong to an evangelical church where I loved the feeling of care and belonging, but always felt an imposter. I think I found it initially attractive because of an insecure childhood, but I just couldn’t bring myself to believe in a supernatural deity watching over us, however comforting and attractive that seems.
I have in later life realised that I am, and have been a Humanist all along, Whitewave2 has posted about humanism in detail so I won’t repeat, but humanism makes perfect sense to me.
I think it’s very normal to have “spiritual” feelings, and for example to be filled with a sense of wonder and awe when confronted by beautiful landscapes, or great buildings, such as Cathedrals, where you can feel a sense of the past. You don’t need a god for that, or to be kind, compassionate or to care deeply for others.
It may be comforting for some to believe that life goes on after death, but I value my life more because I believe that this life is all that I have.

It must be a huge comfort to those who have faith but I have come across too many believers who are less than Christian in their actions and behaviour towards fellow their man and woman.

Virgin births, rising from the dead, loaves and fishes ? No I genuinely can’t understand anyone believing those stories.

I used to go to Sunday school and church regularly and was even confirmed as a youngster but that was long ago. I follow the ‘do as you would be done by, be kind, do no harm’ way of life and it works for me. When I die that will be that. The end.

We too, ‘ came across many believers who are less than Christian ‘. That’s why we stopped going to church. Being a Christian isn’t about being ‘ good and nice’, although hopefully, those things would follow. It’s about a belief, and desire to follow Jesus, who is Head of the church.

Churches are man made institutions with man made rules. I’ve known of Ministers who are not Christians!! It probably has the appeal of being quite an easy job, which I’m sure they find it isn’t. It can be hard enough when you are a Christian.

I get people not believing in anything, and just going about their daily business, without giving it too much thought. In this case, Fanny seems to be questioning, which is how it starts for most of us who are Christians I would imagine.

What I don’t get...is that someone can’t understand the virgin birth, rising from the dead etc, but can believe....what? That we all just magically appeared from nowhere...no explanation.

The Bible is history. If you don’t believe it...I get it, but you shouldn’t believe any other historical account either. It doesn’t make sense.

By the way....welcome to gransnet Holysox.

I try to not criticise believers, as I've said, because everyone is entitled to believe what they like, as long as it doesn't impact anyone else.

But why do believers feel its OK to disrespect an understanding of cosmology and quantum physics as if its just "magical". If you'd like a good discussion about the Big Bang and evolution, I'm up for it if you are.

No thanks Alegrias, but appreciate the invitation.

OK, you know where I am if you ever feel the need DiscoDancer1975

Alegrias1

I try to not criticise believers, as I've said, because everyone is entitled to believe what they like, as long as it doesn't impact anyone else.

But why do believers feel its OK to disrespect an understanding of cosmology and quantum physics as if its just "magical". If you'd like a good discussion about the Big Bang and evolution, I'm up for it if you are.

Sorry Alegrias1 Christians do not disrespect cosmology and quantum physics. I presume you are thinking of the 'creation' vs 'evolution' debate - perhaps worthy of new thread, if one isn't already running. I will say, being a scientist myself, that I understand the Theory of Evolution is still unproven, still just a theory, a matter of 'belief' you might say. As a Christian I also know there are things that go beyond the laws of physics, such as Jesus's ressurection, and the 'science' topic is merely a distraction.

It takes courage to seek God without the fellowship of a congregation. The Unitarians provide an understanding fellowship for people who refuse to believe some pre-digested doctrine.

Blondiescot

I don't have any faith either - nor have I ever felt the need for one. I was made to go along to Sunday School every week with my granny - it was my father's concession to her after adamantly refusing to have me christened (his view was that once I was old enough to understand, I could choose my own religion - or none). However, even as a young child, I quickly realised there was something far wrong - I was a very questioning child, and this was actively discouraged by those in charge. You had to "believe" - and that was it.
On the other hand, I respect those who have a faith, and I find religious buildings and traditions fascinating in their own way - but only as an outsider looking in!

Curious, Blondiescot, but what exactly were you to 'believe'?

Well HolySox, DD1975 said that scientists seem to think that we just magically appeared from nothing with no explanation, hence disregarding the centuries of scientific advances and knowledge that explain how the universe became as it is. I think that is disrespectful.

As a scientist yourself, I would have thought that you would know that the use of the term "Theory" in Science isn't the same as its use in everyday language. A scientific theory is an "explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results." (thank you Google) Not just something somebody thought up on the back of an envelope. I'm not sure if you believe that evolution is unproven, its not clear from what you write, but if you don't believe in it, how do you explain that the virus is, as we speak, evolving into different variants that are more "fit" for their environment?

What a pity you think "science" ( your quotation marks, not mine ) is a distraction. Never mind, its doing a grand job of keeping us all alive.

Alegrias1

Well HolySox, DD1975 said that scientists seem to think that we just magically appeared from nothing with no explanation, hence disregarding the centuries of scientific advances and knowledge that explain how the universe became as it is. I think that is disrespectful.

As a scientist yourself, I would have thought that you would know that the use of the term "Theory" in Science isn't the same as its use in everyday language. A scientific theory is an "explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results." (thank you Google) Not just something somebody thought up on the back of an envelope. I'm not sure if you believe that evolution is unproven, its not clear from what you write, but if you don't believe in it, how do you explain that the virus is, as we speak, evolving into different variants that are more "fit" for their environment?

What a pity you think "science" ( your quotation marks, not mine ) is a distraction. Never mind, its doing a grand job of keeping us all alive.

I didn’t mention scientists at all!!

No, that's correct, you didn't DD1975, apologies for putting words in your month.

I think that many people think that the state the church is in or the abuse of power, mistreatment, or self righteousness of christians is enough to put them off God but christians aren’t any better than anyone else we are all imperfect and broken. I think to use the excuse that people have treated me badly so I won’t believe in God doesn’t make sense. God if He exists and I believe He does has to be much bigger, more righteous, more of everything to be God. He made the universe and yet he watches over us and loves us all.
There is good and bad in the Churches just as anywhere else and not everyone in the Church are followers of Jesus.
The difference is and the reason that Jesus is such good news is that when we believe and follow Jesus we are forgiven and set free.
Whether you accept His forgiveness or not He still loves you His love is unconditional.