I wish that I had a Faith

Jumblygran

I think that science and God can get along side by side quite well. The intricacies of the way the world is made even when you get down to quantum level speak of an intelligence which tells me that the world didn’t happen randomly. I actually think it takes much more faith to believe life happened randomly than to believe in an intelligent creator God.

Yay! I've been saying precisely this for so many years to friends who don't believe in God as I try to give them a different perspective. (I'm not trying to push my belief down anyone's throat, but when the subject comes up, this seems to be one of their biggest stumbling blocks.)

Oh dear, sorry Fanny

Which is more likely, that over 3 1/2 billion years there has been enough time for life to evolve from a tiny microorganism into the diversity of life we see today.

Or

Some supernatural being is directing everything in minute detail and creating every species of life including 229 different kinds of finch. (I'm in my finch period today ) And hiding fossils to confuse us and try our faith.

HolySox

Thanks for responding BlondieScot. Sorry to hear you were told not to ask! Jesus said 'Seek and ye shall find'. Perhaps it is time you start asking questions again.

Oh, I'm always asking questions, trust me! And every question I ask on the subject of religion just proves how irrelevant it is to me. I'm not knocking anyone's faith - but for me personally, religion has no meaning whatsoever.

Alegrias1

Oh dear, sorry Fanny

Which is more likely, that over 3 1/2 billion years there has been enough time for life to evolve from a tiny microorganism into the diversity of life we see today.

Or

Some supernatural being is directing everything in minute detail and creating every species of life including 229 different kinds of finch. (I'm in my finch period today ) And hiding fossils to confuse us and try our faith.

Or 3, there may be a God whose providence operates over 3.5b years on the probabilities of quantum mechanics:
‘The Christian understanding of providence steers a course between a facile optimism and a fatalistic pessimism. God does not fussily intervene to deliver us from all discomfort but neither is he the impotent beholder of cosmic history. Patiently, subtly, with infinite respect for the creation with which he has to deal, he is at work within the flexibility of its process.’ (Polkinghorne, Science and Providence )

Yep, agreed geekesse. There could be a guiding hand that set things off and is keeping them on course. But he's not creating every single thing, one at a time, which is what I think creationists believe. If I'm wrong about that belief I'm sure someone will tell me.

Polkinghorne rears his head!

I wish we could join both threads, it’s difficult following diverse similar discussions.

I've always believed in evolution and always will, as have my family who have a faith.
I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.
I always thought that the creation story was incredibly clever in that it describes evolution in very simple terms, even before we understood it.

Anyway, I hope that the two threads don't become similar because I really don't want this to become an Argument Thread at all please.

Having a faith is not genetic at all .
You may have been brought up to follow a particular faith, but then sometimes something happens and you get diverted and wander away from that faith. Doesn't mean it is forever.
The fact that you wish you had some sort of faith means that you need to decide for yourself whether to return to Methodism or find something that possibly may be better just for you.
At the moment, with churches closed, it's not as if you can visit a service anywhere as a taster . There are many services being held via zoom or YouTube etc. Maybe start off with your local church and if you don't feel comfortable, try somewhere else!

Wikipedia: ‘A [...] 2010 YouGov poll on the origin of humans found that 9% opted for creationism, 12% intelligent design, 65% evolutionary theory and 13% did not know.’

Creationism is a niche view, I think, and this article seems to support that: www.forbes.com/sites/johnfarrell/2015/01/27/new-survey-finds-creationism-in-britain-has-been-overstated/

Given that 20% of U.K. adults believe the conspiracy theory that humanity has made secret contact with aliens (lots more here: yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2021/01/18/global-where-believe-conspiracy-theories-true) I think the relative risk to common sense from young-earth creationism is somewhat limited.

I agree with the OP,though I am not looking for a faith.I feel with highly religious cultures,there is a very fine line between their religion and pure evil,intolerance,outcasting,the list goes on.Add in all the churches atrocities over the centuries and I feel horror.I was brought up Catholic and do attend church when I have to.I believe in being a good ,honest person,helping others,doing my bit for the planet and to be respectful of others beliefs etc but do not wish to have it forced upon me.Id like to think there is something after death.But while I'm alive I have no strong feelings of faith or God and I'm ok with that.

Jaylucy I didn't say that 'having a faith is genetic' at all, I've not even considered that.
I wouldn't go to church either, as I said in my opening post.

I'm afraid that this thread is becoming an Argument Thread.

Can we just try to have a nice chat please?

Sincere apologies Jaylucy, I realise that I did use the word 'gene'. I meant it metaphorically, but please accept my apologies!
It seems ages since I started this thread and I've forgotten what I said

I have seen a twin study that shows you actually CAN genetically be predisposed to be religious. I think that the more that is discovered about the human genome the more we will see how our behaviour is influenced by genes, but environment and nurture must also play a crucial part.

Going back to the concept of providence and the idea that God created the earth and stepped back and left things to run itself versus the thought that God is involved in every minute detail of existence.
Algerias you said you thought the latter was what creationists believe and some do.
What I believe is that God created the world and has stepped back but he also is quite capable of intervening when we need it. Hence the virgin birth and miracles. Most christians I know would believe something similar.
Genetics is a fascinating subject it seems that they change quite easily in relation to predispositions. Maybe proof of evolution within species.

The best way to engender faith is to practice it. Find a church, or other religious community, that suits your personality and keep attending for long enough for it become meaningful.

I can't agree that faith will come without community. It might be possible to continue in one's long established faith without the sustenance of others but to begin with you need the encouragement of other like-minded people.

At the moment, with churches closed, it's not as if you can visit a service anywhere as a taster . There are many services being held via zoom or YouTube etc. Maybe start off with your local church and if you don't feel comfortable, try somewhere else!

This is very good advice as it enables you to try out different types of worship without any commitment. Hopefully you will find something that suits you. If so keep at it for a while and see what happens.

Have faith in yourself trust and believe in yourself in your own inner guidance.

Evolution by natural selection is inconsistent with evolution by God's intention.

Natural selection: random mutation+ struggle for existence= evolution.

God: God consciously intended and created evolution of species.

Alegrias1

DiscoDancer1975

I’d just love to see one piece....of evidence. Perhaps you could send it privately.

If you're looking for a picture of a crocodile turning into an elephant you're going to be disappointed.

This is good, although I found it by accident. "Why evolution is a thing". 9 minutes in, new species of finch. And why a species that only lives about 100 years has difficulty with long evolutionary timescales.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3GagfbA2vo

First of all, my apologies Alegrias. I asked for evidence, which you sent thank you, and I then forgot to respond.

I looked at it, and as I thought, the young man was talking about adaptation....not Darwinian evolution. Of course we believe in adaptation. It’s happened around us, even in our life times. He talked about all our DNA and such being similar. Of course.....we all had the same creator! He used the same building blocks.

The Finches and lizards were the only references he made to Darwin’s work. They are still finches and lizards. Humans have also adapted many times. Taking the stance of the young man in the video, does that mean then, that there are different species of people, ie black and white. I would understand this is adaptation. We’re all human.

I have a video for you, but I’m signing out. Jesus tells us to tell people about Him...but not push it, which I’m becoming in danger of doing.

I wish you well, and God bless.


youtube.com/watch?v=a3NQ0wg3iVU&feature=share

DD1975 I appreciate that you aren't going to change your mind, but I hope a disinterested viewer will look at this and take the following into consideration:

The whole 11 1/2 minutes are about Darwin's work and what we have learnt from it and added to it in the last century and a bit, not just the discussion about finches and lizards. I especially like the section explaining how the ancestors of whales used to walk on dry land, and how the shared ankle bones show that they also share distant ancestors with pigs. Whales and pigs. Different species. Same ancestor. Evolution.

I haven't watched your video yet, but I will. Lunch first.

Ok, lovely talking to you, and I will pray for you?

Watched it. "Are we evolved from koalas?" "Do you believe?"

Oh dear. Never mind, we'll agree to differ.

I believe that there's nothing new, that there is a god force for good and there are evil forces, which hopefully most of us resist, we should do what we can work towards making the world a better place, doing as we would be done by. You needn't be a Christian to respect that the bible speaks a lot of truths regarding the ten commandments, the sermon on the mount still hold true today, rules for living. Nothing in nature is wasted, so why would we be? Everything recycled in some form. I am grateful to be part of creation and evolution and although I will never remember being here when I'm gone, my life will have mattered and I am sure will continue in some form. Love going into churches, particularly abroad and witnessing the faith of the churchgoers.

To have a faith must be wonderfully satisfying, I was brought up as a Catholic and by the age of 15 realised how hypocritical the nuns and priests we were taught by. I left school and didn't enter a church again until I was an Adult. I discovered organised religions didn't work for me. I have always took a deep interest in wild life and nature. Growing seeds in the greenhouse and watching that seed turn into a beautiful flower or a vegetable, was so miraculous how could that come from that. This made me become more aware of the energy around us, and in us, which makes us all grow and gives us life. Being taught as a child that God is everywhere and God is in us all. Every living thing on the planet even microbes we cant see, has been created for a purpose we are all linked with Cosmic energy. As humans our minds are limited, the greatest scientists all put together on the planet can't truly explain, despite there theories. But we have all the evidence around us and ourselves as humans to know there is something so much greater than we could possibly imagine.

Hi Sparkling I have just read your comments and agree all the way with what you have said. I hope more people will start to think and believe this way. It makes so much sense.