I wish that I had a Faith

Personally, I am so glad I have not got one, and be free.

A young evangelical couple from Eastern Europe, we had taken a bit under our wing- asked 'how do you know what to do, what is right, or wrong, without God?'

We both smiled and replied 'because it makes sense, human sense, it's quite simple, really'.

In our family, we have Christians of so many denominations- and that was so difficult back in the day- where religion split families so hard. Anglicans, Methodists, Protestants and again, with different attitudes to many things, Catholics, again with many different perspectives on so many things (like gay marriage, etc.) and Muslims, some more strict and abiding than others. We respect their faiths, one and all. Some find it hard to respect the fact we are not religious at all. Some would say 'any Faith will do' but not none.

Thank you Wyllow
I have just searched for Quaker meetings near me, and there is one nearby. You can also join via Zoom, which is excellent, I shall definitely do so.
Not every meeting is via Zoom though.
I will report back once I have participated.
Thank you again Wyllow
Here is the link if anyone else is interested
www.quaker.org.uk/meetings/

Franbern

Could one of you people with religious belief in life in the sky please tell me why - as that is going to be so much better than the life here on earth - why you pray when someone is ill, and are so happy when they recover. Rather selfish stopping them going n to this better life in my opinion.

Hope it will not offend anyone if I print the words of an old 'wobblies' song from USA in the early part of the 20th century

Long haired preachers come out every night
Tell you what is wrong and what is right.
Listen to Jesus they say, he will smooth all your cares away
Chorus
And, you will eat by and by
In that wonderful land in the sky...
Work and Pray, Live on Hay
You will get pie in the sky when you die!!!

The person being prayed for, normally doesnt want to die.
If they did, that would be a different matter.

Fleurpepper

Personally, I am so glad I have not got one, and be free.

A young evangelical couple from Eastern Europe, we had taken a bit under our wing- asked 'how do you know what to do, what is right, or wrong, without God?'

We both smiled and replied 'because it makes sense, human sense, it's quite simple, really'.

You are not free.

If we all were, then I suppose I might not be a Christian either.

What do you mean fancythat, when you say that we aren’t free?
Thank you

I was a churchgoer as a child and used to wish I could find faith but now much older just wonder how anyone can believe in some of the more unlikely miracles that just can simply not be true. Virgin births and 4 loaves and 2 fishes feeding thousands come to mind. There are many more of course.
I can be a decent moral honest amd loving human being without the need to believe in a religion. However have no problem with anyone who does. I wish all well.

Of course we are free. Free to have faith or not.

FannyCornforth

What do you mean fancythat, when you say that we aren’t free?
Thank you

We are not free as everything lives under God.
Which is part of the reason I became a Christian. I realised there is no escape.

I sometimes wish it were not so.
There are consequences to what we think and say and do.
I say sorry to God quite frequently. Then it is blotted out.

If you carry on seeking, you will find.

I don't live under God. That's just dogma.

If Christians feel you can't escape from God, I'm even more glad I have no faith. Why would you want to escape?

I realised there is no escape.

That is a very scary sentence, don't you think?

I don't either. And which God? Why is your God the one to live under? There are plenty of others. And what does 'Christian' mean, when there are so many different ways of being one, with vast differences and attitudes to s many things like homosexuality, abortion, slavery, women. Have you read Leveticus- which bit do you approve of or not?

That is a very scary sentence, don't you think?

It is.

I am not entering into a never ending list of whys and wherefors Fleurpepper.

If you really want me to asnwer a particular question, then I will.

Ah, good point fancythat. I guess people who believe that are the ones who decide to kow-tow to the imagined god.

But other people decide to do the right thing because its the right thing for other people and they've worked that out for themselves, not because they're scared of a being that doesn't exist and think they need to apologise to him/her/it.

fancythat

I am not entering into a never ending list of whys and wherefors Fleurpepper.

If you really want me to asnwer a particular question, then I will.

Which Christians denomination do you think is the right one- as there are so so many, with VERY different views and interpretation. Do you abide by all tenets of Leveticus?

Wyllow3

FannyCornforth if you do wash up at a Quaker meeting you will find people of different faiths there: and a sense of community of fellow "seekers". For thats what we are and do - we have no creed as such. Seek in fellowship.
My family and the way I was brought up see any faith as a sort of crutch for comfort against a fear of loss and death. But the spirit found me - nothing extreme, no born again or conversion moment - a just knowing feeling in my heart. I tried the C of E, I tried the local Buddhists, and with each, I found pressure to adhere to a certain set of beliefs and not a willingness to consider others or let myself be moved by wisdom from other faiths.

On the table in the middle of our meeting we have the bible and the Quran and the Tao Te ching, but someone is as likely to quote from a poem or something profound from their own experience. We sit in a circle in silence, sometimes a reading to start, and sometimes a whole hour passes in this way, sometimes people speak up. The love and peace in that state is something that a christian would Quote, "passeth understanding".

On the table in the middle of our meeting we have the bible and the Quran

I find this odd, as the Bible contradicts the Qur'an. E g, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross, he rose from the dead, and he is Lord and God. The Qur'an contradicts all of these. How can the same God have inspired them both?

Also, I don’t think many Quakers would agree with all the teachings of Islam, such as:

- Those who leave Islam should be killed (one school says men should be killed and women put in prison until they change their mind)
- People who have gay sex should be thrown off the top of the tallest building in the area
- If a man fears a lack of submission from his wife he is entitled to beat her
- Men can have up to four wives
- When Muslims conquer an area, they are to give the inhabitants the choice of converting to Islam or paying a poll tax (the jizya)

I was brought up as a Quaker from the age of 9. I did encounter a certain amount of woolly thinking.

(I didn’t feel any love and peace in Meeting either, though I’m sure some people do. I have since in church.)

In response to your OP, Fanny, I became a Christian in my 30s and it’s the best thing I ever did. I spent three years before that seeking for the truth and looking for answers to my questions and objections about Christianity. (I went to Quaker meeting and to different churches, read the Bible and read loads of books. They didn’t have Alpha courses in those days.)

I would encourage you to seek too. I can recommend C S Lewis’ book Mere Christianity, if you haven’t read it.

Also, I don’t think many Quakers would agree with all the teachings of Islam

Do Quakers and Christians believe that you can sell your daughter into slavery and that you should stone your mother to death for wearing linen and wool at the same time?

I don't think many Christians will believe in what is in much of the Old Testament, and Leveticus in particular.

Burn bulls alive to please God
Not have any contact with mentruating women
Sell daughters in slavery
Own slaves as long as they belong to another nation,
be put to death if you trim hari at the temples
wear clothes of more than one type of thread

etc, etc.

In the Old Testament there are three types of law: the ceremonial law, relating to temple worship and ritual purity; the civil law, relating to crimes and punishment for crime; and the moral law.

The ceremonial law was for the nation of Israel, and any who chose to worship God with them. It applied until the coming of Jesus. The civil law was for the nation of Israel during that period. The moral law is largely repeated in the New Testament, and still applies.

The things mentioned above by volver and Fleurpepper were part of the ceremonial and civil laws, and no longer apply.
www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/which-laws-apply

That's convenient.

fancythat

Franbern

Could one of you people with religious belief in life in the sky please tell me why - as that is going to be so much better than the life here on earth - why you pray when someone is ill, and are so happy when they recover. Rather selfish stopping them going n to this better life in my opinion.

Hope it will not offend anyone if I print the words of an old 'wobblies' song from USA in the early part of the 20th century

Long haired preachers come out every night
Tell you what is wrong and what is right.
Listen to Jesus they say, he will smooth all your cares away
Chorus
And, you will eat by and by
In that wonderful land in the sky...
Work and Pray, Live on Hay
You will get pie in the sky when you die!!!

The person being prayed for, normally doesnt want to die.
If they did, that would be a different matter.

Why not? As they think they are going to a far far better place, one they have spent their life on earth preparing for.

Maybe they wish to spend more time with their family.

If you have, or do not have a faith, and don’t skit, or rudely describe the faith of others, or dismiss other’s choice to have or not to have a faith what’s wrong with that?

If you choose to have or not to have a faith but do skit or rudely describe the faith of others or dismiss other’s choice to have or not have a faith, that says more about you than anything else.

Skye17

In the Old Testament there are three types of law: the ceremonial law, relating to temple worship and ritual purity; the civil law, relating to crimes and punishment for crime; and the moral law.

The ceremonial law was for the nation of Israel, and any who chose to worship God with them. It applied until the coming of Jesus. The civil law was for the nation of Israel during that period. The moral law is largely repeated in the New Testament, and still applies.

The things mentioned above by volver and Fleurpepper were part of the ceremonial and civil laws, and no longer apply.
www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/which-laws-apply

Apart from one! A VERY important one- so why pick and choose? Being gay still very much applies to many Christians and especially evangelicals.