losing faith in a loving god

Callistemon21

paddyann54

Of course ther are doodle thats the whole point of religion /faith the folk at the bottom of the tree have something to focus on ,keep them in line .Its GODS will .Nothing to do with whatever political party thats keeping them poor or destroying the health service its not ever Bojo its all down to Gods plan

Or having faith in the SNP which is keeping you in line.

Faith is a very personal thing, paddyanne.
Who is to say who is right and who are you to think you are superior to those who believe in a God?

(Apologies to Alegrias if she is reading this)

Well said * Callistemon*. It always surprises me when so many anti God posters spend so much time talking about Him. He would be pleased to get so much air time!

paddyann54

Of course ther are doodle thats the whole point of religion /faith the folk at the bottom of the tree have something to focus on ,keep them in line .Its GODS will .Nothing to do with whatever political party thats keeping them poor or destroying the health service its not ever Bojo its all down to Gods plan

God's has made His plan known to us. For instance the book of Revelation mentions quite a few nasty world events. Plagues, wars even the earth burning up (Climate Change?) - and "yet the people still would not give glory to God."
As for ^"people at the bottom of the tree^" that would include her majesty the queen. From what I've read about her I am convinced her faith is sincere, not faked for show.

I think in reality we are now living in a post Christian age. According to the last British Attitude Survey those identifying as Christians had dropped well below 50% and those professing no religion had increased, also on the increase, as to be expected were those of other faiths.
The 2021 Census for England and Wales will not be published until NI and Scotland have completed theirs, but a similar drop is expected.
I believe many younger people find Christianity not relevant to their lives and are more interested in sex equality, social justice, climate change and compassion.
I think spirituality, not religion, is a different thing. I have feelings of great awe when I am in beautiful landscape, or in wonderful old cathedrals for example, but has nothing to do with god, but the way my brain responds.

Farzanah Christianity isn't based on a democracy. It's about a Kingdom.
It is also very interested in "sex equality, social justice, climate change and compassion." and if anything has been at the forefront of these issues. For instance:
"Galatians 3:28 " There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - promotion of racial equality, sexual equality and anti-slavery."
Climate change.... maybe man destroying the planet (evidence of sin) or maybe God's wrath coming on mankind... that's a whole debate...

God has not made his plans known to us - humans, many many moons ago, have written texts for the purpose of perpetuating male domination and the suppression of the masses.

Christians now interpret these texts in the light of acquired wisdom, and recognise their fallibility and social context.

It terrifies me that some people take this stuff literally. Therein lies the source of much strife and oppression.

And compassion HolySox?
Do you believe God’s wrath coming on mankind?

HolySox - bit of cherry picking going on there in regards to slavery, is there not? There are many passages in the bible which, far from being anti-slavery, positively endorse the practice!
Here's just one example: Leviticus 25:44-46
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession."

A lot of Christians would say that the Bible is the inspired word of God. It was written of its time and needs considered and prayerful interpretation nowadays to understand what God is saying to us today.

Totally agree momb

Blondiescot - many things in this life are there for us to understand our relationship with God. For instance the Israelites were freed from slavery in Egypt to illustrate how we need freeing from 'sin'. Again when the Israelites turned away from God He sent them back into slavery. But that is OT.
In the NT there is a different spin - have a read of the letter 'Philemon'.

Farzanah

And compassion HolySox?
Do you believe God’s wrath coming on mankind?

Jesus taught that at the end of this age is 'the harvest''. Speaking of this in Rev.14:19 "The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath."
But as momb says, the Bible needs prayerful interpretation. Have a read yourself and pray about it. See what it says to you.

Let's face it, it's full of contradictions - you can read into it what you will, and obviously many people do.

The problem with “interpreting” the bible is that we are not neutral. Our thoughts are influenced by pre formed ideas and experiences. “Listening to god” may be observing/listening to our own thoughts, of which we become especially aware when sitting quietly in prayer or meditation. I have no quarrel with those who are religious, the evidence just doesn’t add up for me.

A lot of truly evil things have happened because of people's interpretation of sacred texts. For those who wish to do evil things they can find an excuse in most religious texts.

You can indeed find the exact opposite within those texts too, and this has motivated many good people.

But just the fact that it is possible to cherry pick those bits that suit the individual is a huge and dangerous problem.

I feel your last sentence is a bit over the top Luckygirl about 'a huge and dangerous problem'. I don't believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God but I do feel it is inspired by God. I need to read the Bible thoughtfully ,intelligently and prayerfully to try and understand what it is saying to me. Other than my intelligence and experience of the world I can fall back on the historic teaching of the Church and other Christians understanding of it.

I understand where you are coming from momb because I have a few lovely Christian friends who are similar.
However I can also see what Lucky says, that it is easy to cherry pick from the bible, to justify and reinforce prejudices, and behaviour, good and bad.
Probably the biggest influence on our behaviour I believe is genetic, upbringing, and life experience. Religiosity, or none is just a consequence of the former.

I am to love God, and there is no need or duty for God to love me as a reward.

I need to read the Bible thoughtfully ,intelligently and prayerfully to try and understand what it is saying to me. This is what my Christian friends do. Sadly that is not what many do - would that it were.

However thoughtfully religious texts are read, it is still true that people cherry pick what suits their intentions - as I said above, these can either be good or bad.

Reading texts literally gave us the crusades, Islamic fundamentalism, Catholic cruelty ........... and so it goes on ..... and on. It is indeed dangerous - very dangerous.

Why not just strive to be kind to those around us? Does this really need a religious text, written by people generations ago?

And I also struggle with the idea of a god who wants to be worshipped all the time, but apparently, according to the teachings, regards humility as a virtue - what the heck is that about?

I do not know how or why the world was created - I do not know what we are here for - I do not know what the world is meant to be or how we should live. But I do not seek answers in ancient texts borne out of previous primitive cultures. I just look around me and think that the world would be a splendid place if we were just kind to one another. That is my religion. It is not always easy, but is worthwhile I feel.

We have to look at the world around us objectively. It is not all beautiful and wonderful and praiseworthy - it is cruel and predicated on kill or be killed, on survival of the fittest .... within every uplifting scene before us there are creatures scared for their lives and being destroyed. It truly is a cruel world - I do not feel a desire to thank any being for this. Would a loving god organise creation in this way?

What is playing out now in Ukraine is simply a reflection of the way the world has been created, of the way in which humans are made, of the instincts born into us.

We can only strive to be kind and to counter this as best we may.

Well said @Luckygirl3

"losing faith in a loving God" - is the title of this thread. I have just participated in a Webinair (along with over 2000 from all over the world) arranged by many different denominations throughout Europe. We heard the voices of several church leaders and members speaking direct from the Ukraine where the Christian faith is an important part of life.

Yes, they need practical, governmental help etc. But what they also made clear is that they want and need our prayers - their relationship with their God is such that they have not lost faith in Him - they need Him more than ever.

For those of us who pray - may we remember Ukraine and all those caught up in this horror.

Whether people pray or not, we all have Ukraine in our hearts and are hoping for a quick resolution to this cruel and disastrous situation. Their spirit is to be commended. I wish them well.
I also wish those people in Russia who have demonstrated so bravely against this horrific and risky action by their president. They are not responsible for this. They want peace as we all do.

silverlining48

Whether people pray or not, we all have Ukraine in our hearts and are hoping for a quick resolution to this cruel and disastrous situation. Their spirit is to be commended. I wish them well.
I also wish those people in Russia who have demonstrated so bravely against this horrific and risky action by their president. They are not responsible for this. They want peace as we all do.

I agree with this. I cannot in all conscience pray for the people of Ukraine, but am holding them in my thoughts, as I am sure we all are - whatever our religion or none - and will of course couple this with the actions that are open to us here in the UK.

I don’t go to church or pray but I do believe in the guiding principles of Christianity. It is wonderful to see how many citizens of Poland and Germany are offering accommodation and a warm welcome to people who have had to leave their homes, jobs and loved ones because of a senseless war. It was also heartwarming to see pictures of Ukrainian women comforting and feeding a young Russian soldier who surrendered.

I wish the UK would be generous in offering shelter to Ukranians

mumofmadboys, It would be very nice of the government were to provide moral leadership in all sorts of areas but this is unlikely to happen as long as people vote for the sort of Conservatives we are burdened with.