The devil

That sounded just a little bit rude volver. I thought we were all just giving our views.
Not all scientists agree on this issue.
You have a good afternoon too.

We are all entitled to believe whatever helps us to get through this life which can be flipping difficult at times. For myself I prefer not to trust in myths, legends and supernatural beings but am more comfortable with scientific explanations and evolution through natural selection.

Of course science isn’t perfect but logic and reason tells me it’s the best explanation so far.

Not all scientists believe in global warming either. (They're wrong too) Not all scientists think the same.

However to say that "human beings are too complex to have evolved" is just daft. I'm sorry if that's rude. I don't think that facts work at convincing anyone with that delusion, so I won't bother trying to explain.

But just this...there is no conflict between believing in evolution, the Big Bang and supernatural beings. There are scientists who believe in all of them. I'm not one, but there are plenty. Jocelyn Bell Burnell, my scientific "hero" for instance, is a Quaker. But denying evolution because you think humans are too complex is just denying science. Sorry, but it is. 🤷🏼

I think "the devil" is just a way for people to explain things they dont understand

Sadly most of us are hurt by people close to us, people we love or are supposed to love us. Understanding why that would be is something science still can't fully explain now so no surprise a supernatural other got the blame

Some people are just not good people and the worst thing about them is the mental gymnastics they do to excuse and justify their own behaviour. Think the man who hits his wife "its your fault I hit you, you made me angry".

I would have thought at times the idea of an evil supernatural other suited them too when they got caught.

Without abusive people there would likely be no need for the idea of a devil at all

volver
I didn't deny evolution, just in regard to human beings. You think that's daft ( and I'm glad you apologise for rudeness) I think that's intelligent.
But why be rude? What does it matter to you what I believe?

It doesn't matter, of course not nadateturbe, as I've said several times in this thread people can believe what they like. But this is a discussion forum. So I'm discussing and pointing out things that don't add up.

Please don't be offended by this...but...

We are just animals. We have evolved. There is lots of evidence and proof that this has happened. If religious people want to believe that we are somehow "chosen by God" then I can't argue with that, because its a circular argument. God exists therefore he made us special and because we're special God must exist.

How do you square away the existence of fossils that show the evolutionary path from (e.g.) homo erectus to us?

Of course you don't have to answer. I just think its interesting.

How do you square away the existence of fossils that show the evolutionary path from (e.g.) homo erectus to us?
I don't. It doesn't disprove my belief.

I don't know how to answer that so I'll go and have my tea.

Thank you for engaging nadateturbe.

In these kind of discussions, why does there have to be a right and a wrong? I tend to find that there we all hold an individual view based on our life experience. That experience differs, so we hold different views. Discussion should influence the evolution of those views, not attempt to dominate.

I don't know how to influence people who don't believe in evidence, though. Absolutely, believe anything that makes you feel better, but don't deny evidence and say it doesn't prove anything because it doesn't fit with your world view. 🤷🏼😕

MissAdventure- it was your question. Please come back and tell us why and what you think.

They say that everything has its opposite, so if there is a god, there must be a devil. However, I don't believe 'God' exists as an actual being. I think it is like Father Christmas, it represents all that is good in humans. Therefore the 'devil' represents all that is evil.

I’d certainly agree as regards evidence. But consider that not everyone is in a place to have access or know how to seek what might be available, let alone form their own informed opinion. Not all are as strong as some.
As said, discussion gives thought, dominating doesn’t.

Thinking on, I have my own opinion, but I only view that as current. I’ve come a long way from the religiously dominated world I was raised in and believe myself to still be on that journey.
I’ll make an observation - I posted this morning about having seen evil discussed in a series about drugs. No one picked up on this. I suspect it’s too emotive an issue for some and to foreign for others. Is either way - or any position in between - right or wrong?
No, the opinions are all valid, even if it’s not having one.

ExperiencedNotOld

I’d certainly agree as regards evidence. But consider that not everyone is in a place to have access or know how to seek what might be available, let alone form their own informed opinion. Not all are as strong as some.
As said, discussion gives thought, dominating doesn’t.

Read that again ExperiencedNotOld.

Are you seriously suggesting that some people are unable to process evidence and form their own opinions?

Can you imagine the uproar if I said that?

No, what I’m saying is that we all have different abilities due to different backgrounds. Knowledge management is my job title but compare me to my mother, or my next door neighbour or many others and they would be able to fully exploit whatever information is out there. That’s not putting anyone down. I can’t do car mechanics nor nuclear science. That doesn’t make me deficient in any way it just makes me lacking in experience. Same goes…

In these kind of discussions why does there have to be a right or a wrong I often wonder why too ENO.

Your response @ 17.29 nadateturbe is the one I would have given. No one can prove that God exists and no one can prove He doesn't; it's simply having faith or not having faith.

Thanks smileless .
I have read up on this subject contrary to what you believe volver. I am not ignorant. I know about fossils, and how man has involved, I do actually know who Darwin is. I disagree with some theories, and they are theories.
Some people may be lacking in the ability to gain knowledge and form opinions. I am not one of those people.
Unfortunately I now find it difficult to join in discussions so I should have ignored the thread.

And now I shall sign off.

You don't know what Theories are though, do you?

snowberryZ

I watched We Need to talk about Kevin on Netflix recently.
I know it's only fiction but that boy was truly evil in my opinion.
I know a mother's love is supposed to be unconditional but I could never forgive my child for doing that to a sibling.

Haven’t watched it, but started the book and couldn’t finish it. I couldn’t bear the mother who never wanted the baby at all, and never loved him. So according to the book* there was not a scrap of unconditional love anyway.

*Whether that aspect was changed for the film I don’t know, but more than likely I expect.

Smileless2012

^In these kind of discussions why does there have to be a right or a wrong^ I often wonder why too ENO.

Your response @ 17.29 nadateturbe is the one I would have given. No one can prove that God exists and no one can prove He doesn't; it's simply having faith or not having faith.

Quite so Smileless. In philosophy, it is called the difference between belief and knowledge.

I believe in God but that doesn't mean I deny evolution. The majority of Christians believe the story of Adam and Eve was used as a metaphor to explain the existence of humans. I accept the big bang theory - but what or who caused it and where did the elements involved come from?

It is true there are many religions but it is also true that those religions also include the existence of the one we call the devil.

This ^^

volver

You don't know what Theories are though, do you?

That is because the word has been taken over to describe ANY random thought that anyone has, like "I have never been there or done any research to check, but my theory is that the moon is made of green cheese" That is not a theory, it is an unexamined hunch.

A scientific theory is a term for a hunch which has been thoroughly checked. Volver can describe the journey better that I can by which someone's hunch becomes "Blogg's theory".

Still, a theory is not a fact.