How old do you have to be to have religion? [Title edited by GNHQ at OP's request]

Galaxy

Am not headed to hell as most are (through their own choice) feels to be me unkind and judgemental so if thats heaven (I believe in neither) I will pass thanks.

You are judging me for the way I wrote what is what? You want to go to Hell because I wrote it wrong for you? You want to put your eternal damnation upon me? I think you can do better than that. Ridiculous.

Sorry random be in that post.

Am not headed to hell as most are (through their own choice) feels to be me unkind and judgemental so if thats heaven (I believe in neither) I will pass thanks.

Galaxy

Because if heaven involves the things you were saying I felt no love there.

Goodness
Innocence
Purity
Holiness
Kindness
Love

How is there no love in these things?
You want to punish God for the way he has decided to run things by choosing for yourself to suffer eternal torment?!
I don't even understand your reasoning...
It makes no sense.

Because if heaven involves the things you were saying I felt no love there.

Galaxy

I am afraid that hell sounds preferable to me so am grateful for my choices

Hell sounds preferable?! Are you sure about that? Eternal darkness, eternal suffering, eternal torment and agony and pain and the agony of being outside of God's presence? Shut out from God's love, nothing good or innocent or pure or holy or kind or loving? You want to go to Hell, why? Because you don't want to be with the one who designed and created you and loves you so much he died for you? How can eternal damnation appeal to you over Love? That's bonkers!

I am afraid that hell sounds preferable to me so am grateful for my choices

I remember aged about 18 months thinking that I loved God. I always loved Father God and God the Son- Jesus. Never talked about at home. I was born again aged 22. Over the subsequent decades I've got to know God's character really quite well, and understand him a fair bit. I put my faith in Jesus to be saved so on death am not headed to hell as most are (through their own choice). Which is nice.

I dont agree, because I think its good to understand different faiths and understand what faith can mean to an individual, without it being "forced" on children in any way.
Most schools now are sensitive about the different celebrations or special days of major religions (like celebrating Diwali as well as Christmas) Because since we live in a multi faith and multi cultural society. Humanism should be included as well of course!

And history needs to be honest about the part organised religion has played in war and oppression. Critically, for some attempts in the past were done under the guise of one god or another, but were really about grabbing land, power and resources, "justified" in the name of a god: others were genuine ideologically religious wars. But if one puts Putin or similar somewhere far in the past one can imagine him claiming its in the name of a religion. The suppression of one group or another or the indoctrination of one group by another is also done in the name of religion but is a ?? mix of power holding and religious or non religious ideologies.

Whitewavemark2

Schools should be secular. Religion has no place in an institution of learning, except to understand historic decisions, wars and suppression carried out in the name of one religious deity or other.

Exactly what I said too earlier in the thread.

Integrated schools in NI

nicie.org/

Schools should be secular. Religion has no place in an institution of learning, except to understand historic decisions, wars and suppression carried out in the name of one religious deity or other.

This award winning article on integrated schools in Northern Ireland explains that in 2021 only 7% of pupils attended integrated schools yet the overwhelming majority of parents support integration.

Sectarianism is still rife in Northern Ireland and a danger to peace even now. Integrating the schools would be a positive move.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/02/integrated-education-northern-ireland-school

I second every word paddyanne said, except the personal information. I was brought up a catholic. I went to 10 schools, 7 of them catholic, most of them convents. All the convent schools I went to acceped children of all faiths and all nationalities, albeit that, back in te 1950s, most children were likely to be British. At secondary school, girls from the local Jewish community came to the catholic school because the CofE secondary school did not accept non-Christians, There were separate religious education lssons for those not catholics, the Jewish girls fewer in number were not expected to attend religious education classes.

Although I went to catholic schools, outside school I met people of all religions and none. I had aunts and uncles who belonged to other Christian denominations, neighbours, work colleagues of my parents all came from a range of backgrounds.

The only time I have any concerns about religious education in schools, is where the children in the school are living in religiously homogenous or religiously divided communities.

At one point it looked as if DH would be going to work in Northern Ireland and the first thing I said to him was that if that happened we would pay to send the children to religiously mixed schools. We would have had enough problems bein a mixed marriage and we did not want our children educated in segrated schools for a segrated community.

For one set of grandchildren, the nearest school with good results happens to be Catholic. They have to be baptised to attend - but it's just a big joke to all concerned - so ridiculous.

Jesuists, not Jesus's

It was Aristotle who said "give me a boy until he is seven and I will show you the man"

Undoubtedly these early years are very influential.

All the more reason for being concerned about the power of indoctrination of such young children.

Aristotle's saying became a motto of the Jesus's who were very keen on indoctrination.

How do we strike a balance between supporting a young child in understanding the world , knowing right from wrong and developing a strong character, whilst having an open mind, and learning about different people, and families unlike their own with different beliefs which may be equally valid?

Most if us are more enlightened now. Children under 7 are guided by their parents, my two children do not share my views and that’s fine, it’s a personal thing and people should make up their own minds without being indoctrinated. I remember being very scared about things my friend told me about her catholic school with the nuns and could not understand her mother sending her, if anyone caned my little child they would have to deal with me.

Came to UK to escape Apartheid and sort of pretended to be CofE, to fit in and get kids into decent schools.

My mother was a divorced Protestant from a very Bourgeois family, with 1 child from first marriage. My dad came from and artisan staunch Catholic family. They had such a tough time, but I am so grateful it allowed me to see and experience first hand the hypocrisy of it all. Same for OH, even more complicated, grand-father from Anglican family convert to Islam, grand-mother Muslim, and his parents atheists both of them, having rejected Islam and Methodism.

Thanks for the information Dee, yes sad and horrific as you say. Excluding others on the grounds of religion, who could potentially be the very best people to enter your life, by imposed parameters is sad and an infringement of personal freedoms. Looking back I think it's is fair to say that most catholic families know they are fighting a losing battle with offspring, in that it's only a matter of time before they go their own way, maybe not so much in the past, particularly in Ireland, but these days after so much of the dark underbelly of the goings on within the catholic religion is in the public domain, we know at its worst it is both wand strong.

I don't think there is anything wrong in having a strong faith, although I would say it is a personal thing which shouldn't be imposed on others. I think I have one to an extent it just isn't the blind faith my parents had. In retrospect when I ponder on the religion I was brought up in, my feelings are the essence of Jesus was lost and misrepresented by the vanguard of a church, man set up in his name, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want his followers who have been separated by a schism at some point in history being so hateful to each other, or for that matter towards followers of other faiths.

My children had friends from other faiths in their non denominational senior school, I like to think they might have discussed different beliefs when they were hanging out but I rather think the main focus of any serious and sometimes heated conversations were centred around who had the best trainers

No-one can be forced to believe. It is good to introduce children to faith but they will all eventually decide for themselves. Faith is my greatest gift in life I think.

I'm really surprised about the sectarian thing present in other parts of England such as Liverpool which I always perceived as a pretty catholic city due, I believe to the great swathes of Irish immigration over the years.

Terribull When growing up I can recall hearing about the horrific sectarian violence / riots in Liverpool (my home city) in 1909 and even in the 60's, I can recall family members referring to the North side as Orange.
I think it became very different in later years but I'd suggest there's still an undercurrent which as with many things is very, very sad.

I'm really surprised about the sectarian thing present in other parts of England such as Liverpool which I always perceived as a pretty catholic city due, I believe to the great swathes of Irish immigration over the years.

For all our faults down south, of which I am sure there are many, sectarianism isn't one of them.

My parents were strict catholics, I had a lot of it at home and then again at both my schools state catholic junior and convent senior. The Irish nuns did much to crank up divisions in a subliminal way, for example when the protestants filed out of the classroom at my convent, when we the catholic girls had to attend mass in the chapel on a "saints" day, once they were down the corridor some nun or other would pronounce "let us pray for their protestant souls so they aren't committed to eternal damnation" or some such drivel! We had a couple of really nice French nuns. However the Irish nuns could be a spiteful lot, I say that as someone who had a half Irish grandmother and friends from school with Irish parents who would agree with me. I like many have read about atrocities committed by certain orders against young women and children in Ireland and so I guess we got off light we only had to suffer tongue lashings not physical abuse.. My enduring opinion is that many of these women should not have been around children. and they certainly did nothing to promote religious cohesion with such asinine utterances "as you may go into a protestant church for a wedding if you have to but bear in mind God won't be present in their churches"

Obviously as a child one cannot make an informed choice about religion, even though "confirmation" is supposed to be such a time when one does that. I was still at junior school when I was confirmed, it happened pretty soon after our First Holy Communion as many of us girls wore the very same dress when we were confirmed so we learnt the catechism by rote for this purpose but with no real understanding of what we were undertaking.

My parents thought they were doing the right thing for our souls, they also thought they were doing the right thing when my maternal grandfather was dying in hospital and they with my grandmother got a priest along whilst he was on his deathbed presumably to have some sort of conversion into the church so the last rites could be administered and then a catholic funeral to follow . If I could speak to them today I would question that, he wasn't a catholic baptised CofE and actually half Jewish as I've discovered of late and although my grandparents married in a catholic church and their children were brought up catholic, he didn't practice any religion, so all in all not sure they did the right thing there even if it was for the best of intentions according to what they believed. Anyway, I will say this for them outside of school and church they didn't place any restrictions on who I made friends with, insomuch as religious background was irrelevant.

I think some of the vestiges of what I now see as indoctrination remain, I did think about bringing my own children up catholic for a while but on balance I think religion should be something an individual should make an informed choice about rather than have it foisted upon them and I do agree in an ideal world we wouldn't separate children off on the basis of religion.

Catholic brainwashing from birth to 28, when my catholic born husband and I managed to get the courage to break free from the chains. We left the cottage early, n wales middle of no-where, it was snowy and icy and we had to de ice the lane from the top of a hill and take great care when driving with our two small toddlers.

It was miles on very bad lanes and we were slightly late for morning sunday mass. We then had a lecture/sermon on being late for mass, while women in their sunday finery tut- tutted. That was the last time. for religion My husband had been in a seminary from age 9 to 11 and we were both indoctrinated through and through.

I find my `religion` now by being very in-tune with mother nature and very glad to be awayfrom hypocrisy. The only aspect I still like are the church bells, which often ring while I am doing hands and needs gardening on soil. We have bell ringers here, where I live now in s somerset