if god is so loving

Kate1949

As a child brought up on a Catholic household, I prayed every night that my violent, drunken father would change. He didn't. I stopped praying because there was no one there. I have been through so much c**p but never pray. There is no point.

I grew up in similar circumstances, Kate1949 but - from my own experience - I developed a conviction at age 18 that 'we are here to use it help other people'. It led me, that year, to start working in a psychiatric hospital where people occasionally asked me what I thought the point of life was. Some seemed satisfied with this naive conclusion of mine. I went on to believe that, according to my mother; 'there is a reason for everything'. Looking back over the last 70 plus years I can see 'each end in my road was actually just a bend...' Social Work training led me to Carl Gustav Jung's idea of the 'Collective Unconscious'..... Then, much later someone I met in 2016 introduced me to 'the Universe' as a similar entity to the Collective Unconscious.... These ideas are more acceptable to me than any religion which, as often seems to lead to hatred, conflict and even the too often ensuing cruelty and death ..... as often as it may to kindness..... with its roots going back many centuries.....

I describe myself as religious but certainly not Christian. I dont convieve of god as a person but more as a force which created the universe. There may be more than one of them and they in turn may have gods. Who is to say.

I dont consider it necessary to belong to a particular faith or to do particular things to acknowledge that there is somewhere a force above humankind. I dont believe my life has individual meaning any more than the life of say a cat or a snake or a fly does. I think we just have to make the best of things as they are.

Im glad I never had children.

I'm a confirmed atheist. To those who believe or have faith, I'm glad it brings you comfort, but I cannot comprehend how any supposedly loving 'god' could create a world in which there is such evil. I was taken to church every Sunday as a child by my granny, until I realised that you were not supposed to ask questions and simply 'believe'. My logical brain will not allow me to do that. There are thousands of religions, believing in thousands of gods. Who is to say that one 'god' is real and others are not?

I cannot imagine my life without faith and cannot remember a time when I didn't have any.

I remember how comforting it was when I was a child to know that Jesus would look after me.
I lost that faith as an adult.

MissInterpreted

I'm a confirmed atheist. To those who believe or have faith, I'm glad it brings you comfort, but I cannot comprehend how any supposedly loving 'god' could create a world in which there is such evil. I was taken to church every Sunday as a child by my granny, until I realised that you were not supposed to ask questions and simply 'believe'. My logical brain will not allow me to do that. There are thousands of religions, believing in thousands of gods. Who is to say that one 'god' is real and others are not?

Yes, I agree.

Surely a loving God would not let children suffer as many do. People living in fear and or pain which is none of their making ?

As far as free will is concerned , if we allowed our children to do many of the dreadful things this ‘ Father’ allows his children to do, we would certainly be accused of bad parenting.

No thanks, I’ll live by Do as you would be done by, help others when I can and be accountable for my own actions.

God created a universe where those on it have freewill to bless it or mess iit.

I do not believe in any kind of god who interferes in human life. In fact by definition a god cannot. If we are all to be equal in the sight of god then it cannot show any preference for any one person. I think any god wants us to do well and behave, But a loving god is like a loving parent of an adult child, however much the parent loves their child they cannot prevent it behaving in a way that hurts the child itself and often other people.

Redl, your problem is a famous one and is called "the problem of evil".

If you do not believe that God is all-powerful the problem vanishes . If instead you don't believe God is all -good the problem vanishes.

Petitionary prayers are not harmful when you regard them as means of self expression when you are troubled in some way.

I am a humanist - I look at the way religion has evolved over mans existence on earth.

Christianity has only existed for the tiniest time in homo Sapien’s existence both ancient and modern. Religion has evolved over time and will continue presumably to do so.

Earth will continue to evolve, but I have a horrible feeling that it may well turn on man and destroy him if he continues to treat the earth as he does.

Religions evolves for a number of reasons all of which I can understand but definitely not agree, man needs to mature and take responsibility for his behaviour, and understand that there is no saving grace.

I find it odd that anyone can believe that they can pray to God and they would intervene in their life.

Almost every prayer people make is for something that will be to the disadvantage of someone else or needs someone to act differently whether they would or not.

I do not pray as such, but I will try and focus my mind on the person I want to act in a certain way and try an dinfluence them that way.Of course whatever they do I have no means of knowing, if what I want happens whether my focussing on them had anything to do with it.

I'm not a Christian but nor am I an atheist. I suppose the closest thing to my beliefs would very loosely be paganism. Basically everything on earth is inter dependent and is imbued with the divine spirit and that good and evil very much exist.

However, my understanding is that God created us to live a sin free and perfect life in paradise (Eden) without pain, illness or death. His only condition was that we didn't eat from the tree of knowledge, so naturally we did.

This gave us free will and thence forth we were on our own to rule the temporal world. We surrendered immortality and were subject to pain, pestilence and illness and would have to toil to feed and cloth ourselves.

All the woes, wars, famines and ills that occur on earth are created by man, not God, because we eschewed his love and wanted to go it alone. It is now our job to work our way back to paradise and the life God wanted for us, the path to which is set out in the Scriptures. Until then we will continue to suffer.

As I said, that's my understanding but I'm ready to be absolutely flamed by any Christian readers.

flappergirl you are exactly right.

I agree with your understanding flappergirl and do so as a Christian.

I guess for many faith is important and I think the idea is god granted us fee will and it’s humans who cause all the issues. I think the belief is this life comes first, then if you’re a good person after this life comes everlasting bliss.

I’m kind of on the fence, I’m just not sure one way or the other, or maybe hedging my vets? 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Why would a benevolent god allow babies to be born suffering from painful and life shortening conditions.
Famine,earthquakes,storms , tsunami, etc.

What about creating a world where animals suffer so. Eating other animals alive, insects laying eggs in others , being tortured by humans…..

I can’t believe a god would create that.

GSM

See the terrible torture in the world, and think again.

Cossy

I guess for many faith is important and I think the idea is god granted us fee will and it’s humans who cause all the issues. I think the belief is this life comes first, then if you’re a good person after this life comes everlasting bliss.

I’m kind of on the fence, I’m just not sure one way or the other, or maybe hedging my vets? 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

I've fallen off the fence. I really can't believe in this supreme being business. the big bang happened and eventually we came along and that's about it. The idea of worshipping something nobody has ever seen or heard from seems to me a bit ridiculous. That so many religious people believe in the Adam and Eve story of the creation of man is incredulous to me when there is so much scientific evidence against it. The Jesus as son of man thing seems to be just another cult thing that got out of hand, if he turned up today claiming all that stuff people would think he's a nutter. So many people have claimed though history to be the second coming and it's debunked every time.

Me too Kate1949 🌹. Plus for years now people of faith have been explaining away the ills of man by the ‘free will ‘cop out.
My question is where do the innocent babies come into ‘His’ gift of free will given to predators and paedophiles?

No supreme being, it is evolution.
I agree, in this day and age if you claimed to be the son of god you would in psychiatric care.

bad parenting - well that about sums it up!

This idea that all evil in the world is man-made is clearly not a tenable position. The whole way the world is constructed is quite simply based on kill or be killed. All animals are on the alert for the next predator, including us.

All the beautiful vistas before us are heaving with unseen terror, as the creatures therein struggle not to get eaten by another creature.

Now if you or I were creating a world, would that be our starting point?

I came from a moral but non Christian family but became a Christian at around 16. I don't have an answer to the problem of suffering apart from the biblical account of the fall. If I understood it, I'd have the same intelligence and mind that God has. Everyone, me included, have experienced suffering in some form. But I absolutely know, without a smidgen of doubt, that Jesus has been with me at those times.

I’m probably more agnostic that atheist, but I do have a huge interest in comparative religion and the necessity of humans to invent something bigger than themselves… in whichever part of the world humans evolved. And I love religious buildings, architecture and art. But I have absolutely no faith. I’d be very happy to witness something from something to change my mind… but until then…

I find it really difficult to believe in God. I was brought up a Christian went to church and Sunday school but see so much that is bad within Christianity that I just cannot believe any more.
The really wicked Irish nuns and the abuse meted out by priests to just mention a few. The Irish troubles which have gone on for decades, between the Catholics and Protestants all over religion.
Think of the wars between different religions throughout the world .
People who believe say that God gave us free will to do good or bad but how can anyone explain tiny babies being born with Cancer or other heartbreaking conditions ?
My on Grandfather was a churchgoing Catholic who attended mass, came home and beat my grandmother but attended confession so I suppose it made it alright. She died in her 30’s leaving two little boys so I cannot believe that religion is a good thing.

I have a very deep faith, however, it’s religions that I struggle with - everyone of them cause pain, sorrow conflict all because of being based upon man made rules rather than the 10 commandments.
God gave us 10 commandments, emphasising that the most important of these is love, base everything you do upon love and the world would be perfect. But the combination of man made rules, in all religions, added with the abusive use of God’s precious gift of free will equal conflict, greed, envy, misery and sadness to the world 😢