Gransnet forums


Trump and climate shange

(47 Posts)
AlieOxon Mon 14-Nov-16 20:21:00

Petition to sign here:

grannyqueenie Mon 14-Nov-16 23:25:47

Thanks for that link Alie, we were just talking about this tonight while watching an episode of the latest Attenborough programme that mentioned the potential impact of climate change in very cold areas.

whitewave Tue 15-Nov-16 06:26:47

And very hot areas, and more temperate areas etc.

The biggest disaster to ever happen to this world was the evolution of home sapiens

AlieOxon Tue 15-Nov-16 07:54:05

Actually I really believe that the world is coming to the point where it cannot sustain the increasing human population any further...
Who sees the elephant in the room?

......... temperature rising, ice melting, famines,over crowding, sudden local massacres, refugees, riots, bombers, ...consequent rise in the far right support....
Rising tension between many countries.....

Where are we ging?

AlieOxon Tue 15-Nov-16 07:54:45


AlieOxon Wed 16-Nov-16 11:41:27

Sorry, I seem to have stopped this thread.

I see Trump as the unfortunate result of all these calamities...caused by the the unthinking emotional reaction to all the disturbances of every kind around the world.

(Denial of threatening truth is not logical, but is our first reaction.)

The elephant is not going to go away of its own accord....

Lindill49 Wed 16-Nov-16 14:53:33

Will you all please read the scientific facts on both sides. The Romans we're growing grapes in York - the world has been heating up and cooling down since it began. Nothing to do with carbon dioxide. It's the other way round - when the planet heats up(through entirely natural phenomena) more carbon dioxide is produced. We're throwing enormous amounts of money at something which is entirely natural and unavoidable. Did you read that there has been no actual rise in average temperatures in the last 20 years? It's the politicians not wanting to lose face. I think The Donald may be cleverer than we're giving him credit for!

AlieOxon Wed 16-Nov-16 15:41:09

I don't believe that.

whitewave Wed 16-Nov-16 15:56:02

No it isn't true. I have a son who is an environmental scientist. What you are saying lindl can be challenged at every point and masses of evidence to show that climate change is probably the biggest threat facing the planet.

gillybob Wed 16-Nov-16 16:01:32

I have to say that living on the coast in the NE of England. I have seen no evidence whatsoever of climate change (although I know plenty other areas have). Our summers are as cold as ever. No flooding, No heavy snow falls and the sea is as cold as it ever was all year around.

whitewave Wed 16-Nov-16 16:03:48

Living in a temperate climate, the changes are not so stark as those in climate extremes.

gillybob Wed 16-Nov-16 16:06:36

I appreciate that whitewave which is probably why a lot of people deny it exists at all.

whitewave Wed 16-Nov-16 16:08:56

Facts my dear, facts!! We live in a post-truth era so facts are ignored and we only believe what we want to see and feel.

gillybob Wed 16-Nov-16 16:11:56

Not necessarily what we want to see and feel. What we CAN see and feel.

whitewave Wed 16-Nov-16 16:16:35


Ana Wed 16-Nov-16 16:21:09

I thought we couldn't see and feel it because we live in a temperate climate....confused

(I know they had to ditch 'global warming' and go with the much vaguer 'climate change'!)

Elegran Wed 16-Nov-16 17:13:16

There are several natural cycles in global temperature, most of which are very long (like 41,000 years) but some shorter (like the 11 year sunspot cycle) Computing all the known existing ones gives a prediction that the earth should be becoming colder at the moment. But it is not, it is getting warmer at a very much faster rate than it would have been getting colder, and the different temperarure distribution affects weather systems worldwide.. That is a fact, whatever anyone's local thermometer says - the world is a lot bigger than your home town.

The different factor is homo sapiens and their activities.

whitewave Wed 16-Nov-16 17:21:40

Yes ele every species is suffering as a result of our action.

Elegran Wed 16-Nov-16 18:24:46

There are several short free courses on futurelearn about climate change, one started a week or so ago (still available), more coming up in the future.

whitewave Wed 16-Nov-16 18:26:49

God I keep starting them and then find I have no time. It is absolutely ridiculous I don't know what I do with myself. They are good though aren't they?

gillybob Wed 16-Nov-16 18:44:56

is a fact, whatever anyone's local thermometer says - the world is a lot bigger than your home town

Of course it is Elegran but let's face it there are people who never get much further than their own home town and thinking about what might be happening on the other side of the world might be the last thing on their mind. It's a bit like adding climate taxes to fuel and the cost of flying when those that fly the most and use the most fuel continue to do as much as they like, as they can afford it . People like prince Charles make me sick ! Not explaining myself very well and it's hard to type on my phone but I hope you get what I'm trying to say .

AlieOxon Wed 16-Nov-16 19:04:52

No-one has yet mentioned the increasing human population as the root cause of all this.......

Elegran Wed 16-Nov-16 19:18:20

Yes, I get what you are saying and I agree. People who are hard pressed to sort out their own problems can't worry too much about things that are not biting their bums at that moment.
When DH was working, someone circulated a quote that said something like "We have sworn to dedicate our energies to furthering the cause of global peace, prosperity and sustainability, BUT when you are standing in a swamp up to your arse in alligators, it is difficult to keep your eyes on the horizon"

But governments are supposed to do that for us. They have departments to look into it all in depth, and to plan ahead so that our descendants inherit a decent planet to live in - not just our grandchildren, but their grandchildren and their grandchilkdren's grandchildren, for centuries and millenia to come. It is their responsibility to analyse all the masses of research and to explain it to us in terms that everyone can understand, and to get together with other governments to work out how to proceed.

Instead there is a plot of jockeying for Brownie popints for seeming to be virtuous while in fact doing damn all - or even denying the whole thing and blaming it on a Chinese conspiracy to put one over on the West.

Elegran Wed 16-Nov-16 19:26:15

A rising population who want a better life, using more power each fay that their grandparents used in a year, travelling frequently and fast round the globe, eating food that is not in season or has been transported from the ends of the earth, wasting food, throwing away serviceable goods and replacing them with others with obsolescence built in, heating the air above their patios on winter evenings and lighting up the skies above their cities all night, and filling the oceans with plastic fragments which will never decompose.

AlieOxon Wed 16-Nov-16 19:28:00

Come to think of it, only the Chinese have tried to restrict their population, and they haven't done it very well - by trying to impose it from the top down instead of making it socially unacceptable to have many children....