The real reason Australia is ablaze!

What a stupidly constructed argument. Anyone with any contacts in Australia knows the problems he sights exist but how is that supposed to prove that climate change is BS?

I wonder what straw man argument he would produce for the bleaching of the coral reefs?

There are so many straw man fallacies on GN that they may be the cause of the fires! I notice this is from "Conservative Woman". As we all know Conservatives will not believe anything unless there is a marketplace attached to it that will make them money. There is a market attached to fighting climate change of course, and it could give opportunity to those in parts of the country so far left out, of this country's growth, by the Tories. But sadly they are afraid that they may have to dig a little deeper in order that governments can provide the initial capital, and that they may end up just a little less ahead of those who haven't had their opportunities.

As I said upthread, A massive own goal for the greens

Do you believe the Australian government is Green Merlotgran? It's probably worth checking before you suggest which government put these policies in place. It's actually right wing conservative. Interestingly some of the same crew who got their twit of a PM in place were on the Team Johnson set-up too. Watch Scott Morrison and you will see our future writ large.

I think the following could be a massive own goal for the Green Party.

Larissa Walters a Senator of the Green Party, held a press conference where Sherele Moody, a domestic violence advocate, claims that firefighters may well return home and beat up their partners.
She said that Women become extremely unsafe when, generally, the men return home from the fires and subject them to domestic violence

Judging by the mood of the country at the moment, the hero status of those firefighters, putting their lives on the line daily, many of them volunteers, this would seem to be a very unwise thing to say.
It was also very foolish of the Green Party Senator to introduce this woman and stand behind her, thus giving her tacit support to this allegation.

Do not imagine they are all like our sensible, measured Caroline Lucas.

Call this story is two months old almost and her views were not endorsed by the Green Party.

It was sent to me today by someone whose husband is a rural firefighter, so it must be doing the rounds in Australia currently.
I am in daily touch.

Why, then, did the Senator introduce her and stand right behind her in the video?
She was endorsing her.

Why oh why are people so willing to believe the odd idiot who makes a video to express his scientifically illiterate views? I believe a politician was spreading a similar pack of lies.

Of course, there has been no recent back burning for firebreaks. Why? It can't be done in prolonged drought conditions (obviously) without creating more out of control fires.

Even in UK droughts, forest fires, put out on the surface, can smoulder underground for days in tree roots, then emerge again. Ask any fire service.

What has it got to do with the Greens? Not much, it's got more to do with Green bashing. Easy to scapegoat the minority group, isn't it? Just start a rumour and pass it round, ignore the facts.

Look back at the long history of bush fires in Australia and get some perspective. Eucalyptus trees produce flammable gases in hot weather, producing very high flames, easily spreading long distances in windy weather. Weeds a few feet high really don't make much difference in those conditions.

How about blaming the government for negligence in providing/maintaining a paid, well equipped, efficient fire service? Point the finger at landowners for failing to keep their property managed and safe? No? OK then, believe the morons and blame the Greens!

The story was in the DM on 13 November

The senator was not backed by the party

Do people really still believe stuff in the Daily Fail?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia

Unfortunately Hetty58 the Greens do have much more to answer to than you may think. For some time they held the balance of power in the Parliament. For the governing party (whichever it was) to govern deals were done with the Greens. The reduced controlled burning and the removal of cattle grazing on the "high country" among other fire reducing practices, were a result of these deals. Property owners are hamstringed by what they can and cannot do in regard to clearing their properties because of the Green/Governments deals so one can hardly blame them. As for the Government providing/maintaining a paid, well equipped, efficient fire service. Who is to say they don't provide this? However it would take much more than a normal fire service to deal with this current situation.

"weeds a few feet high don't really make much difference in those conditions" I beg to differ they do indeed and it is not just a few weeds it is undergrowth and scrub which is where the fires start. Yes the eucalyptus trees do emit a flammable oil but without the fires started on the ground this would not be an issue.

We know these fires are horrendous BUT they are nothing new. While I do not wish to play down the impact they are having and will have on people, communities, animals etc as well as the country as a whole there have been serious fires happening in Australia forever. In 2009 173 people died in the Black Friday fires in Victoria. IMO the difference with these fires is that they are burning simultaneously in several different States at the same time and it is very early in the summer to see fires of this intensity. The media, both traditional and social is busy trying and succeeding in politicising the situation.
Everyone has an opinion on why the fires are happening and who should have done what and when but most expressing those opinions are not in a position to know.

Having said that I'll add an opinion of my own! Climate Change is NOT THE reason these fires exist,it is however, one of the causes that in conjunction with many others has contributed to them.
I do live in Australia not too far from the East Gippsland fires.

As a matter of interest:

Black Friday 1939
The bushfires of 13 January 1939, known as the Black Friday fires, followed a long drought and a severe, hot, dry summer.Fanned by extremely strong winds, these fires swept rapidly across large areas of Victoria, causing widespread destruction. An area of almost two million hectares was burned across the state, with 71 people losing their lives. Whole townships were destroyed, many sawmills burned to the ground and thousands of sheep, cattle and horses were killed by the intense heat and flames.Three weeks after the bushfires, a Royal Commission was convened with Judge Leonard E B Stretton selected to lead inquiry. The Judge was instructed to inquire into the causes of the January 1939 fires, the measures taken to prevent the fires and to protect life and property.Judge Stretton also investigated what procedures had been put in place to protect life and property in the event of future bushfires.'When millions of acres of the forest were invaded by bushfires which were almost statewide, there happened, because of great loss of life and property, the most disastrous forest calamity the State of Victoria has known. These fires were lit by the hand of man.' - Judge Leonard Stretton, 1939THE LEAD UP TO BLACK FRIDAYBlack Friday was the culmination of a long, dry and hot summer following a drought period that had lasted several years. Many creeks and rivers had dried up and people living in Melbourne were on water restrictions.Dry heat and hot winds sapped much of the moisture from the ground, leaving forest floors and the open plains tinder dry.Prior to January 13, many fires were already burning. Some had started as early as December 1938, but the majority had started in the first week of January 1939. Some of the fires could not be extinguished while others were left unattended, or as Judge Stretton wrote, the fires were allowed to burn '"under control", as it is falsely and dangerously called'.High temperatures and strong northerly winds fanned these separate fires on the day. The fires eventually combined and created a massive fire front that swept mainly over the mountain country in the north east of Victoria, and along the coast in the south west.THE BLACK FRIDAY DISASTERThe fires of January 1939 were to be etched in the memories of those involved for the rest of their lives.Flames leapt large distances, giant trees were blown out of the ground by fierce winds and large pieces of burning bark (embers) were carried for kilometres ahead of the main fire front, starting new fires in places that had not previously been affected by flames.A total of 69 sawmills were burned and 71 lives lost. At one sawmill settlement near Matlock, east of Melbourne, 15 people died while trying to escape from the fires.Over 1,000 homes were burned, and the townships of Narbethong, Noojee, Woods Point, Nayook West and Hill End were destroyed. The townships of Warrandyte, Yarra Glen, Omeo and Pomonal were badly damaged. Intense fires burned on the urban fringe of Melbourne in the Yarra Ranges east of Melbourne, affecting towns including Toolangi, Warburton and Thomson Valley. The alpine towns of Bright, Cudgewa and Corryong were also affected, as were vast areas in the west of the state, in particular Portland, the Otway Ranges and the Grampians. The bushfires also affected the Black Range, Rubicon, Acheron, Noojee, Tanjil Bren, Hill End, Woods Point, Matlock, Erica, Omeo, Toombullup and the Black Forest.Large areas of state forest, containing giant stands of Mountain Ash and other valuable timbers, were killed. Approximately 575,000 hectares of reserved forest, and 780,000 hectares of forested Crown land were burned.The intensity of the fire produced huge amounts of smoke and ash, with reports of ash falling as far away as New Zealand.The devastation ended late on Sunday January 15 after rain fell across the state.

DELWP www.ffm.vic.gov.au/history-and-incidents/black-friday-1939 for more information.

NannyC2, where are you? It's about time to admit that you've been misinformed, isn't it? You were mistaken and mislead. Surely, you didn't intend to spread fake news?

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/08/australia-where-lies-and-conspiracy-theories-spread-like-bushfire

Hetty58 do you live in Australia or do you visit there often?

You do seem to have a lot of knowledge so I wondered if it had been gained through local experience?

The laws in some States are different to others as I have already mentioned.
They were backburning in October where we were, both the Fire Service and the local community.

It would be difficult to maintain a paid Fire Service in the Outback. My relatives and friends, many of whom live out Bush, are volunteer fire fighters but have their own jobs, their own businesses to run.

There is a constant awareness of the possibility of fire.

Many this season have been found to have been started by arsonists.

The Green Party is much more powerful in Australia and other politicians do want their support and votes so have been pressurised into passing laws in some States that may have led to the abandonment of old procedures of fire containment.

However, if you are living in Australia where the fires are then you may have more inside knowledge than many of us.

Stay safe.

Point the finger at landowners for failing to keep their property managed and safe


I cannot believe I read that!
What owner does not want to keep their property safe?
The sense of neighbourliness, of looking out for each other would ensure that they not only keep their own properties safe but are always ready to help others.

If they do backburn to stop fire spreading they have been fined in some states.

SueH49
Thank you for your sensible and informed post.
There are a lot of 'armchair pundits' but many of us have family over there or have lived there ourselves and know that the fear of fire is a constant in dry weather conditions.
Temperatures of 50C have been recorded many times and many years ago, depending on wind direction.

Stay safe and I hope that rain comes soon.

Callistemon I totally agree with your last post, we have family who are farm owners in Victoria.

They have a well practised fire procedure, on their property . They have to abide but State Laws on what they are able to do.

They were burning along the sides of the roads when we were in Queensland not long ago to create a fire break, as a carelessly discarded cigarette, a piece of glass or even just a spark could cause devastation to spread.

While the fires are to be expected the number and intensity are out of the ordinary.

Greetings to you Hetty58.

I assure you I do not spread fake news, though I admit such a thing exists.
It sounds rather like you are a Green supporter? Maybe I am wrong in my supposition!
I care enormously about our world and the importance of looking after it, but quite often the 'Greens' don't follow through with facts!
(Look at wind turbines - they have a waste problem. They have a life of just 20 years, yet disposal is a problem. Currently, there are 2 common disposal methods for turbine blades – either burning them or throwing them in a landfill. More than 720,000 tons of blade material will be disposed of over the next 20 years) - Sorry, I diverse!

It is important to listen to our Australian friends who have made valid points and are more aware of the situation.

In fact my husband has just alerted me to news issued yesterday from BREITBART, that Australian Police have arrested 180 Arsonists for Bushfires.
So, there are other aspects to look at. It makes me very sad to believe that there are those who would deliberately start fires, knowing that this could endanger lives, both human and animal life.
My thoughts and prayers are with all those Australians who are having to live through this nightmare at the moment and, of course all those who have families and friends out there.

Hang on, this clip does not show that the greens caused the fire problems in Australia and not climate change.

It does show that poor land management and lack of fire prevention work has made the fires more difficult to control, but the main cause of this year's, and several previous year's problems have been that there are so many more fires starting than in the past. The fires are caused mainly by lightening strikes and in recent years the fire season has grown longer and average temperatures are rising. and that a long lasting drought has led to a growth in desertification, the dying back of trees and shrubs so that there is more dead wood around anyway.

Today the Australian government announced a major cull of camels, to quote the BBC
Thousands of camels in South Australia will be shot dead from helicopters as a result of extreme heat and drought. A five-day cull started on Wednesday, as Aboriginal communities in the region have reported large groups of camels damaging towns and buildings. "They are roaming the streets looking for water.

www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/climate-campus/australian-climate-change/australian-trends/

So this clip may be right that land management practices have caused fire control problems, but they did not cause the growing drought conditions, the rising temperatures, or the extension of the length of the fire season. Those have all been caused by climate change.

So it's just a coincidence that record temperatures are happening at the same time as the bush fires?

On the contrary, cause and effect.

^ but they did not cause the growing drought conditions, the rising temperatures, or the extension of the length of the fire season. Those have all been caused by climate change.^

Precisely, MOnica.

I appreciate that catastrophic fires have occurred in the past, but the increased incidence of the conditions MOnica cites are a result of climate change. We are experiencing globally a far higher incidence of extreme weather events than would be expected from historic 'normal' weather patterns.

Sorry, NannyC2, but Breitbart is not a source of information I would ever trust.

I was told yesterday that upwards of 200 people have been charged with arson in relation to the latest wildfires in Australia.

I think saying that the Greens 'caused' the fires really means that Green policies of not clearing brush to allow fire breaks is one of the main reasons the recent fires have caused so much damage.

I was told yesterday that 183 people had been charged with arson this season. The number could have risen today.

That means 183 people, each of which could have started more than one fire.

There have been various suggestions in Australia about what their punishment should be.

All the C02 contained in the burnt trees and vegetation has been released thus causing even more problems.