The real reason Australia is ablaze!

I do think he has a valid point, if the locals were permitted to proactively manage their woodland / bush by periodic controlled burning perhaps they could limit the spread of fire.

It's surely the folk on the ground/ farmers/locals who can best judge what works effectively but those further up often forget that. City bigwigs make Regulations with no knowledge of possible repercussions

The analogy in the UK is the regular dredging of our rivers and waterways to mitigate against flooding.

Due to cost constraints and changes in the Government departments responsible for river management that duty has been grossly neglected.
So where is rainwater to go? Councils allow housing development on flood plains. Home owners take out plants and pave over their front gardens for ease of maintenance without a second thought.
The farmers field 30 ft from our home hasn't been planted since last spring as its waterlogged. He's recently excavated all the bordering ditches on 4 sides, for the first time in 13 years. Within hours they were full to the brim.....no doubt he's breached some EU Regulation but the field doesn't have standing water now so maybe he'll get a crop this year.

It seems lately that for every step forward its two back, just for the sake of change.

Farmers believe scientists not right wing rumour mongers.

I'm not sure that is correct Alexa

Most farmers know exactly what needs to be done regarding land management.
They may use science but their knowledge comes from many sources.

Some farmers have family records going back five or more generations, recording temperatures (which often relate to wind directions as temperatures of 50C have been recorded many times over the years if the wind comes from the desert), rainfall, when the rains arrive, etc.

What the scientists recommend and what the farmers and Aboriginal peoples know what needs to be done regarding land management does not always coincide.

What many posters seem not to realise is they are following the fallacy of the OP. Yes, there are problems with the fires being so bad but this does not mean climate change does not exist, nor does it mean the Greens are to blame, nor does it mean the events have not been exacerbated by the long drought - which may well be to do with climate change.

It's about logic Grannies but we get a constant a failure in reasoning which renders the initial argument invalid. Were you never introduced to fallacious logic at school as in:

Donkeys eat carrots
Some GNetters eat carrots
Therefore some GNetters are donkeys

That is the sort of argument many of you are using.

GGMK3 Grannies!!!!!!. Perfectly acceptable in a domestic setting, but used in a public forum to refer to a group of older women it is patronising and, frankly, offensive.

The forum is called "Grans" net Monica. Or had you missed that?

Or is this just another straw man, dead cat or whatever it takes to ignore the fallacious logic comment.

I quite like donkeys. Hard working, domestic beasts of burden.

I feel a bit like that sometimes.

Oh, and I love carrots!

Sweetness and light as ever GGMK3!

GGMK3 I shall forward your opinion to my family in Australia who are currently surrounded by fire.

Gransnet, not ideal but being a Gransnetter, is one thing, being called a granny is something else and in the public domain is used too frequently as a pejorative, or dismissive word, a bit like being called an 'old biddy'

I would point out GGMk3 , that your views and mine accord on this subject, my more extensive post at the bottom of the previous page, makes the same argument you make, so the chop logic example you give at the end of your post, was irrelevant, as far as I am conerned.

merlotgran the donkeys at the farm where we take the DGC are just so 'over' carrots!
Everyone buys bags of carrots and feeds them, they turned up their noses last time!
So donkeys don't always eat carrots.

GGMK3 I shall forward your opinion to my family in Australia who are currently surrounded by fire.

As are my son and his family GrannyGravy. No doubt that makes us both equally aware of the need for logical thinking on this matter. I certainly prefer to take what they tell me as rather more reliable than Daily Mail readers relaying of tall tales.

I can think of nothing I have said on that subject that could interest another family over there but you are welcome to share my thoughts or, easier still, suggest they join the thread and give us theirs.

Why is it that when clambering aboard a high horse, some posters think it can be made easier by muttering, 'Daily Mail' as they slump in the saddle?

What about the fires in California, Brazil, etc, etc., and even countries not renowned for fires, such as Sweden. Were they all due to a decrease in back burning?

I seem to recall that there were claims that the Brazilian fires were because the President encouraged farmers to burn scrub land and use it for agriculture and cattle breeding.

Much as I love them I really wouldn't bother climbing on any horse for this silly thread Monica.

More interesting was the attempt by a GNet granny to use her family as collateral in the same silly discussion without bothering to even think she may not be the only one in that position.

There are lots of reasons people bring up about the fires Eloethan - building on small areas in the bush without clearing an area around it has been one of them. That's rather like blaming people flooded over here for buying houses that have been built, with planning permission, on the flood-plains.

I just cannot see the premise of the OP. Nothing that has been said on here so far is an argument against the reality of climate change.

Much of the comment on this thread is based on ill informed and incorrect fake news spread by right wing media, the vested interests of the fossil fuel industry and climate change deniers.

What is happening right now in Australia is truly horrendous and the situation is not helped by the spread of such disinformation. Even our Emergency Services commanders are speaking publicly about the damage caused by exactly these sorts of reports and fake news sites. The issues are deeply complex and simplistic solutions and opinion pieces do nothing to help.

Australia's track record in acknowledging and dealing with climate change and its consequences is absolutely appalling and I am deeply ashamed and concerned about the consequences for my grandchildren and all the other grandchildren around the world. As a sixth generation Australian who loves my country I do everything in my own small way to change this at a personal and household level, with public activism and actively supporting organisations trying to bring about changes etc. When asked why I do it, I reply that I will probably be OK, my children may be OK but my grandchildren and their generation will be the ones who really will have to face and deal with the appalling legacy we have bequeathed to them.

For readily accessible accurate, scientific and evidence based information please go to the websites of the Australian Broadcasting Commission (the ABC), the Australian edition of The Guardian, the Melbourne Age and Sydney Morning Herald and bushfire articles in The Conversation. There are too many articles and they are constantly being updated to just paste a few links which will be outdated by the time you read them.

I can only hope this conflagration across a continent acts as a dreadful wake up call to all those in Australia and around the world who are still in denial about the reality and dire consequences of climate change.

What is happening in Australia now is exactly what was predicted by climate change scientists 20 years ago!

Er, Apricity, a lot of the discussion on this thread is saying the samething as you.

Does anyone know what El Nino is doing these days. That can be a big factor in the climate problems we have right now.
However we greedy humans are a major part of this.
Those want to eat lots of meat are generating far too much cow shit .
Sorry to be that blunt.

GGMK3 If as you have posted this discussion is silly and those posting are Daily Maily reading Grannies/donkeys I wonder why you are bothering to participate in it.

For the record there are several GN members who have families in the same situation as mine and we are in contact through PMs, swopping information and worries.

Thank you for that extremely thoughtful post Apricity.

This phrase rings home "I do everything in my own small way to change this at a personal and household level, with public activism and actively supporting organisations trying to bring about changes etc." both for what my Australian family do and what we do here.

It is not for the will to do more that things do not get done. My (Australian) DiL's degree was in the environment field and has she also worked in relevant departments in the Universities over there. I also find you have, at the grass routes level of families, more information about what can be done by individuals which she happily passes on to me. But this is not enough, as you say.

It is for governments to lead the way. There is no market driver, certainly as yet, which will lead us out of the industrialisation we have grown used to. The right, unless they see money in it, will not do this in my opinion. My opinion of them, as you may be aware, is very low.

I was pleased the Labour Party over here put forward the Green Industrial Revolution as a way forward. It wasn't the Green New Deal but I felt people could see it as a way of maintaining their standard of living - which the right seem to value more than life - and move forward helping other countries to do likewise. I see nothing coming from this government, which was voted in using some of the same people in this country who aided and abetted the PM in Australia to his current position by, as they do here, appealing to the basest instincts of the population.

I think sharing information is a good thing, and, for what it's worth, I have wondered how your family is, Gracesgran as you had posted about them and your worries about them.

We have family in Sydney too and in various other places affected by the fires .
Having been there fairly recently and experienced the fires and the views of so many people there I think it's useful to share news.

Australians have often changed their Prime Ministers so I wonder just how long Morrison will last?
He's not very popular (probably an under statement) so will others take this opportunity of getting rid of him?

GGMK3 If as you have posted this discussion is silly and those posting are Daily Maily reading Grannies/donkeys I wonder why you are bothering to participate in it.

I don't think the GNetters are donkeys GrannyGravy. That is the whole point of that little example of fallacious reasoning. Didn't get it, did you, sadly?

I come on because occasionally we do get a real discussion from which I learn. I like to learn.