Possible gulf-stream collapse

OK.

Yes absolutely Is is a social construct, but between recognising there is the most devastating crises the planet has ever faced, accepting that it is as a result of human activity, agreeing the worse culprit - hydrocarbons- agreeing and actively on cutting back or eliminating - constructing the technology. Then looking at the economy and how it will work.

The steps are the biggest challenge we have ever faced

There will be major resistance at the suggestion that consumption of hydrocarbon related production, the economy is entirely wrapped in it.

DD and I were just discussing the report.

The planet, of course, will be fine. Its been warmer, its been colder. What will happen is that the lives of human beings will be changed forever. Island nations gone, under the sea. Equatorial areas uninhabitable. Our current lifestyle unsustainable - food shortages, flooding, wildfires.

We've had 50 years to think about it so any of the world's politicians that try to use the excuse that its too hard and the economy won't stand it will get no sympathy. They're meant to be leaders, well they better get on and lead.

My question is, what are you going to do about the animals that are not killed for meat, they will still reproduce, give off methane gas, are we to euthanise them all.

I get asked this question a lot (I'm a vegetarian). The numbers of meat and dairy animals we have at the moment is not natural; I don't expect everyone will go veggie overnight so we scale back the industrial farming and get to a position of equilibrium between the animals and the rest of the environment. Which means a change in the attitude to farming and support from governments to help people affected by it.

And if we have to euthanise some, so be it. Vegetarianism isn't a sentimental choice, its a pragmatic one.

What it also means is mass migration from the areas of the world that are becoming uninhabitable.

What does that suggest given the attitude to immigrants? Look at our current Home Secretary who seems to have an unhealthy and cruel obsession with immigrants.

The big issue for the U.K. when the Gulf Stream does collapse will be the ability to grow as much of our own food as we do now, because the growth season will be drastically reduced.

One of the successes of lockdown has been the reduction in co2 emissions as a result of people working from home.

It was certainly noticeable during the initial lockdown. Working from home seems to be the way to go where possible.

Message from the government?

Get back to the office.

What fools they are.

If the government approves the new oil field in the a North Sea, it will do so in the full knowledge of what these enormous amount of extra hydrocarbons will do to the world.

Culpable?

Yes.

Whitewavemark2

The big issue for the U.K. when the Gulf Stream does collapse will be the ability to grow as much of our own food as we do now, because the growth season will be drastically reduced.

All these climate change predictions are just speculation, we just don’t know whether it is going to get warmer, or if the Gulf Stream changes it will get colder.

We all need to consume a lot less - but we aren’t, we just believe the carbon offsetting claims and carry on as before, eventually we will change our ways, what will happen to the global economy then?.

All these climate change predictions are just speculation, we just don’t know whether it is going to get warmer, or if the Gulf Stream changes it will get colder.

I've given up being polite.

This is tosh. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Alegrias1

^All these climate change predictions are just speculation, we just don’t know whether it is going to get warmer, or if the Gulf Stream changes it will get colder.^

I've given up being polite.

This is tosh. You have no idea what you're talking about.

How do you describe two opposite predictions of how climate change is going to affect us

If it’s not speculation what is it?.

I’m afraid I have to agree with alegrais

Me too.

Not just tosh, very very dangerous tosh, and the reason we are where we are now. It is accelerating very fast and out of control- due to such attitudes.

How do you describe two opposite predictions of how climate change is going to affect us

Evidence of this? Got any?

I'll wait.

So we have one group predicting the Arctic ice cap melting and it’s going to get warmer and another group saying the Gulf Stream is going to stop and it will get colder.

Who do we believe?.

Katie59

Alegrias1

All these climate change predictions are just speculation, we just don’t know whether it is going to get warmer, or if the Gulf Stream changes it will get colder.

I've given up being polite.

This is tosh. You have no idea what you're talking about.

How do you describe two opposite predictions of how climate change is going to affect us

If it’s not speculation what is it?.

Because the two can happen simultaneously

DS is an environmental scientist who has been mitigating against climate change for years.

I was talking to him last night, and he is very gloomy about the future, largely because he has very little or no faith in the politicians.
When the Gulf Stream does stop - it is already juddering- it means that the U.K. will no longer be warmed by the stream, our climate will cool. However there will be some mitigation from the climate warming, but not sufficient to prevent a possible major issue relating to the shortening of a growing season. We already import an enormous amount, but given the fact of climate change and the difficulties the entire world will have with food security, we really will have profound sues relating to our food security

Other parts of the world will become inhabitable, resulting in mass migration.

Uninhabitable!

Alegrias1

^How do you describe two opposite predictions of how climate change is going to affect us^

Evidence of this? Got any?

I'll wait.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/oct/13/arctic-ice-melting-climate-change-global-warming

This probably has just as much credibility as to Gulf Stream predictions.

If both happen together it’s hard to believe it’s going to get colder Whitewave

Greenhouse gases cause the earth's atmosphere to heat up. More heat is equivalent to more energy. At increased temperatures, ice melts. I don't think anyone would argue with that. So, the ice caps melt.

So as the ice melts, the oceans become less salty. The Gulf Stream is partly driven by the circulation of currents in the Atlantic which is dependent on the salinity of the oceans. Less salinity, more likely that the circulation changes, so more likely that the Gulf Stream gets diverted or stops all together. The Gulf Stream is responsible for carrying warm air to Northern Europe, so if it fails, we get less warm air delivered and locally the temperature falls.

Not only is it not a contradiction, both these things are as a result of the same process.

The Gulf Stream is slowing because of the ice melt and the amount of fresh water entering the sea.

Not only will affect the U.K., - I don’t think that people generally understand the profound influence that it has on the U.K. climate- but it will disrupt the monsoon and hurricane season, Antarctic ice melt and rain forests.

Food production will fail in thousands of read of the world.

?

areas, not read.

Great minds, WWM2

Here is a link that explains that scenario in more detail
You will note that they use “ could” change ocean currents.

climate.nasa.gov/news/2950/arctic-ice-melt-is-changing-ocean-currents/