Researchers have created eggs from the cells of male mice, raising the prospect of male couples having their own children...

Galaxy

I am talking about the inequality between the surrogate and those who pay. Strangely enough it generally isnt the likes of Kim Kardashian who are being surrogates.

Amazing isn't it that we never hear of the rich or famous feeling so altruistic that they offer to be a surrogate.......

I was just looking at countries that allow payment for blood donation for example, only 4 in Europe. Against WHO advice although that seems to be about safety from what I can gather.

We should invest in advanced technology in order to free women from the pain and degradation of childbirth. There is nothing wonderful or romantic about it. While one half of humanity are condemned to bear the children of all humanity we can never have equality.

My friend used a surrogate, they saved for years to do it and now have a much loved little boy. It's not just the rich and famous doing it. And there are people who want to help others have children...

This is just taking their right to choose away wanting it banned

In the UK you cannot legally pay a surrogate, you can only cover their reasonable expenses

Yes I know. For very good reasons. Not so in other countries.

Right

So what do you think is best then?

Ban surrogacy in general and fight to have that rolled out globally?

Or fight for surrogates in other countries to be subject to the same rules?

Oh I would abolish paid surrogacy in a heartbeat if it were up to me, I think it's one of those things that people in the future will look back on and say they did what? As for altruistic surrogacy I would be interested in long term studies on the impact on the children, and of course there are the risks to the woman which makes me uneasy, I tend to think the welfare of children should be higher than the feelings or needs of adults. I have reservations about unpaid surrogacy, I am completely against paid surrogacy.

I think it's my choice what I do with my body.

I think that is every woman's choice and should be.

I think women need safeguarding from those who can and do take advantage but that is a seperate issue.

I think that the fact that human beings are willing to donate bone marrow for strangers and give blood without pay just goes to show that many people are intrinsically good.

I want no part in banning what is good about humanity.

What ledbin couples do is technically a form of surrogacy by implanting the egg of one into the uterus of the other and people I know who have done this have happy children.

The mixed sex couple I know who used a surrogate also have a happy much loved child.

People donate eggs and speem to others and perhaps that causes some issues in terms of the biological relationship and children's rights to know but that's no different to adoption.

I think if we just stop thinking in terms of "adopted child" "step parent" etc, that would have a profoundly positive effect on children

I dont know what that means children have a right to know that they are adopted obviously , well not just a right, its imperative in terms of physical and mental well being. I would be interested in the long term data rather than anecdotal data. We have I think only recently begun to understand the impact being removed from your parents care has on children (and that is unavoidable in many cases) so to remove a child deliberately is I think something that needs talking about. Lots of recent research about the importance of the 'fourth trimester' so I think it's important to talk about.

I imagine that the egg from one male partner would then fertilised in vitro with sperm from the other male partner... i.e. what used to be characterised as "a test tube baby". Presumably the fertilised egg would then be implanted into a uterus, so we're looking at a form of surrogacy, which can also be controversial, and is banned even in some European countries, e.g. France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Bulgaria. So there are clearly a whole host of complex, ethical issues, which I don't pretend to have an answer to. Nevertheless, the concept leaves me feeling rather uneasy, in particular as regards the emotional implications for the child.

I am always interested in the laws of some European countries, I think we are 'closer' to Europe in terms of how our society functions than to America for example, so I always pay attention if they have different view to the UK. Obviously this doesnt apply to every single European country and every law within them.

The issue to me smacks of male supremacy.

Rosie51 wondered if there would be similar research into women being enabled to produce sperm, allowing lesbians to reproduce? probably not.

This is a difficult subject to put into words. It feels sinister and leaves me with a cold dread to the future if this new male focused experimentation is allowed to continue...

NanaDana
Nevertheless, the concept leaves me feeling rather uneasy, in particular as regards the emotional implications for the child.

Where do the rights of the child come into this?
This isn’t about the child, it’s about adult rights.
The mental health implications for the surrogate, whether paid or unpaid leave me feeling uneasy too.
I can’t drag out a whole list of “I know somebody who . . .”
But if you’re so desperate for money that you see that as a way of raising funds, a bit like selling a kidney its concerning.

If you’re willing to do it unpaid, then do you want to keep in touch with the parents whether they like it or not?
Do you want the child to be told that you exist?
Does the child have a right to know or a right not to know?

Frankenstein genetics.

If it gets as far as humans the males will still need a human female to grow the baby inside of her

Weird coincidence, radio 4, currently discussing the new legislation which allows those conceived from donor eggs etc to trace their biological parent, I think I have got this right but I only caught half. They were talking about the lack of support for adults who suddenly find out they may have 10 'siblings' for example. It is something we need to talk about. Apparently the popularity of DNA testing has opened a can of worms for people who had no idea of their biological parents. This obviously wont only impact on donor parents and children, but on those who have had affairs etc.

VioletSky adopted children are encouraged to meet their birth parents now, not just letterbox contact

Step-children along with step-parents should be aware of the absent/deceased birth parents.

Should this be the same for those born of a surrogate?

To dismiss a child’s birth parents can lead to feelings of abandonment and mental health issues in adulthood.

Mollygo. "Where do the rights of the child come into this?" Really? To suggest that this "isn't about the child, it's about adult rights" appears to reduce the new human being to a mere side effect, and to both dehumanise and diminish the child as not deserving of any consideration as regards its own emotions within this complex equation. Yes, of course adult rights of parents and surrogates are equally important, but please don't suggest that the child isn't just as deserving of consideration.

Well said NanaDana

Grantanow

No doubt some busybody will want to ban it.

Yeah, like every sane person, ever.

Every child deserves to know both its birth parents to understand its identity. Some may not be bothered, but for others it can be heartbreaking not to know, a total loss of identity. You only have to watch Long Lost Family to see the emotional implications for the child.

Thank you NanaDana.
Sorry if you thought I was supporting the idea that it’s about adult rights. I was just pointing out that that’s what it seems to be about.

Galaxy

Oh I would abolish paid surrogacy in a heartbeat if it were up to me, I think it's one of those things that people in the future will look back on and say they did what? As for altruistic surrogacy I would be interested in long term studies on the impact on the children, and of course there are the risks to the woman which makes me uneasy, I tend to think the welfare of children should be higher than the feelings or needs of adults. I have reservations about unpaid surrogacy, I am completely against paid surrogacy.

Galaxy how do you think the children born to surrogate mothers would feel reading your post. That you would literally have denied them the right to exist. The first surrogate children I knew of are almost teenagers now. They were the result of a commercial transaction.

The children of donors were a few minutes ago discussing the emotional difficulties that they face, they are permitted to express a view even if other people may be offended by it. I dont think we shouldnt talk about things because it may hurt peoples feelings, we cant operate society like that. As I say many countries make commercial surrogacy illegal because of the ethical issues.

There was a strong movement to ban stem cell research but thankfully it didn't happen in most countries and we now know there are medical benefits. Banning scientific experimentation (conducted within ethical guidelines) is like telling people they are not allowed to read certain books or advance views based on observation (Galilleo). The Catholic Church and right wing Republicans in the US have a history of doing that, some very recently in the US.