Sorry GNHQ I don't like the Oldie Borum

It sounds as though it all comes down to cash flow in the end, like a lot of problems. I suppose we Gransnet members are unaware of the costs involved in developing, hosting and maintaining a complicated website. Individual broadband is dear enough.

Sites like Google and Facebook get loads of advertising to help pay their bills. Gransnet needs advertising too, to survive, if members are not going to be asked to pay to join.

Think we've to bit the bullet. no-one has to post on OmBm threads if they don't want to.

About all the Gransnet threads being visible to outsiders - they already are. Anyone with a browser can follow them. It is only to post that you need to log in.

Geraldine, your comment,
we thought it would start more quietly than it did and we could announce it in the newsletter today or tomorrow
demonstrates that your intention was always to introduce The Oldie to Gransnet as a fait accompli . In my view this shows a complete disregard for the GN community and certainly changes the way I feel about Gransnet.

I do understand that Gransnet is Googleable and that it's a public forum, but to actually invite the press in is something else. I understand your need for money to run the site etc. and really wish that you had involved the GN community, through discussion and consultation, in your decision making process. I feel as though GNHQ has actually belittled us and want to ask why you thought that it was acceptable not to at least inform us of the proposed changes? Did you anticipate this sort of reaction and decide that you would 'ride it out'?

I am more disappointed that I can really explain and feel completely let down.

Thank you GNHQ for all of that information...although I'm not sure I'm still "at ease" with it all ...but perhaps the status quo will return.

As you've 'sprung' pinternet on us today ...what are you going to confuse me with tomorrow?

This may backfire on you, GN, because of the way it's been done...
That's if no-one joins from the Oldie, because of our reaction, which must be offputting - can they back out of this?

Thanks for your message JosieGransnet. I know how difficult it is to bring about change in order to survive and you have my complete sympathy there at GNHQ.

How about taking away the Borum Forum threads that have triggered this feeling of segregation, suspicion and uncertainty, and let's just have them all join in together? They'll be sure of the usual warm welcome if they're new members, and can identify themselves as Oldie people on profiles or in discussions.

I do understand all the uncomfortable feelings expressed about this, and share many of them. I particularly dislike the clear link to the press. Thank you for your explanation Geraldine and for some reassurances.

I'm not sure I fully understand the criticism that we weren't asked about this before this happened. At the end of the day Gransnet has to operate as a business, and I don't think forum members can reasonably expect to be informed and/or canvassed in advance of each step taken to promote or sustain the business. We're not shareholders. A mention of what was planned would have been good though...perhaps that will happen more in the future.

As always, we can choose which bits of the forum to engage with. I hope we end up with some new forum members as a result of this. The more the merrier.

PS Fog has finally cleared so there's now some

Did I miss info re Oldie Borum? I have read your threads and feel I need to catch up somewhat, where are GNHQ original details about all this?
Not sure I like where it's going either.

I agree with you Notso - Gransnet has no obligation to include us in business plans. As customers of this service, we have the option to go elsewhere or engage in as limited or full a way that we may choose.

I'm really sorry, though, that the way this change has been imposed is putting a damper on discussion, because I've thought of a few things I would normally share this morning, and now don't feel able to, because the change has created a feeling of segregation that I don't believe any of us want. To see some threads headlined Borum Forum tells us there's a difference between us all - we didn't have that before. Let's have none of that - if we are interested in Gransnet and want to be members let's all be treated the same and have our usual choice of topics that Oldies members can come along and contribute to, or create new discussions themselves, but not announcing that these are different because they have the Borum heading. That isn't inclusive at all.

carol and so say all of us (well me anyway) you've put it nice and succinctly!

No MaggieP ...you didn't miss any information from GNHQ ...that is why there has been so much discussion on a couple of threads.

It all started yesterday afternoon when we suddenly had 7 'seeded' threads with 'Oldie Borum'. if you go to the Forums section you will see they have their own 'group' heading.

I will simply not post on OB threads, hope others do likewise and that they sink without trace. The trouble at present is that as long as they are active we have them in our face. I too reacted negatively to the "survey" technique - it's a different sort of question form the sort where we share our experiences. I do not like to think of our posts forming the basis for some article /survey in The Oldie.

I think everyone is now thoroughly confused. Is OB posted by Oldie staff? Or members of their forum? Or what? And why?
Would perhaps have been good if they had made one post at a time rather than showered with a small flock.

I think one of the OB staff started those threads as a first push. Then anyone can post on them or start a new thread, as usual. The threads are not separate from Gransnet, just another topic, the same as AIBU or chat.

On the onllne version of The Oldie, there is a link to Gransnet, where anyone who subscribes online to the mag can read the GN pages exactly as ANYONE ELSE online with a browser can. Gransnet can be used from there exactly as usual. Reading posts is for anyone but to send a post they need to join Gransnet and have a username and password.

Hi Josie - thanks for responding. I know you don't intend segregation - we all know GN well enough now. Unfortunately, giving it a 'stand-out' label like Oldie Borum does just that. It's like being at school and being told you are from from group and another group will be the elite group. Not intended, but people start wondering which preferred group they belong to. Inclusion isn't hard to do, just remove the labels that identify difference in a negative way.

Agree they did rather flood the market with posts. One to try it out would have been enough, and they could have introduced themselves too, if they were linking up before GNHQ had prepared us.

The borum is a new forum the Oldie mag has started up in their mag. (it will probably fail and fizzle out because the oldie mag is read by MOSTLY (Elegran note I said mostly) old farts technophobes. GN is hosting it for them and beaming it over (think Star Wars) (no don't). Only the threads headed with Oldie Borum will appear in their mag.

Readers of the mag will, of course, be able to post on it and their comments will appear on here.

Thank you. I think i understand now.

Where is copyright and data protection in all this? Once we post on a Gransnet thread, does the copyright transfer to Gransnet and does this mean GNHQ can use our posts in whatever manner they choose, even taking them out of context? It is a bit worrying and I think it will inhibit Gransnetters from being as open and honest as so many have been in the past.
I used to read the Oldie and enjoyed it - especially the crossword - but I find it a tad expensive these days and I felt quite alarmed when I read about the Oldie Borum.
I assumed I held the copyright to anything I posted on the forum and that my permission should be sought to quote me in another medium.

Gransnet owns the copyright but not exclusively. I think.