I Never Realised The Olympics Is This Year, Sometime.

I'd feel pretty pleased with myself if I'd sat on the info for this long, and waited until it got the best results before releasing it.

What a sad day for British Dressage! Carl Hester, who has supported and mentored CDJ for all her career, would not approve of any cruelty to horses and the UK has been leading the world in producing horses that are "happy" athletes rather than tense and unhappy in their work.
The movements performed by Grand Prix dressage horses are all based on what they can do naturally, to suggest it is unnatural is tbh total rubbish. My Hanovarian mare could passage and piaffe from the day she was born but training her to do it under saddle with the lightest of aids was the challenge, same with extended trot and canter, horses do tempis naturally but having the strength to do eleven of them one after the other is about training and acceptance of the aids.
Horses are totally wonderful animals and I am so privileged to have spent my time with them but there are people who treat them badly and I'm totally up for exposing them, there are also people who think horses should not be ridden (under any circumstances). I struggle with that tbh. We've domesticated horses, they no longer roam the plains and let's be honest, if they don't have a place as ridden equines they really don't have much of a future except as animals in a zoo. I speak from experience having owned, trained and competed dressage horses, it is not an inherently cruel sport but some people are unprepared to put in the huge amount of work that correct training requires and some are just totally inexperienced and the horse suffers. I'm fortunate to have watched some of the best trainers in the country and also trained myself with them. I can honestly say that I have only once felt uncomfortable about the training I was receiving and being a bit old and very bolshy I had no problem in ending the lesson and getting my money back.

I honestly don’t think that Charlotte could have achieved what she has with her horses by being cruel to them. And I know I’m always banging on about this but no one seems to care about the wild mustangs ( which were supposed to have been protected by law) in America that are being rounded up by helicopter ( how terrified must they be) and sent to kill pens .

For those condoning the timing of the release of this video, you do realise you are condoning the likely continuing abuse horses have suffered for the past 4 years don't you? Abuse that could have been stopped much earlier. Surely any animal lover would have wanted this cruelty exposed at the first opportunity so it could be stopped?

Rosie51, people have been trying to get action taken for years! Nobody seems to care. Just search for information about cruelty in dressage. There was a Danish documentary about this. Nobody has ever taken any notice. Those trying to expose this are threatened with legal action.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that this abuse is a one off. It's been going on for years. Nobody listens

I honestly don’t think that Charlotte could have achieved what she has with her horses by being cruel to them

And sadly I honestly think she could, Maybee70. Just do a spot of research.

Are you saying, Rekarie, that this specific instance of abuse, hitting the horse's legs to make it achieve more elevation in passage, has been going on for years? Or are you talking in more general terms of abuse?

Just as a matter of interest, do you ride?

This shows how far modern dressage has come from its roots. Look how freely the horses used to move, in true harmony with the rider. This kind of training and riding is not rewarded in competitive dressage, so you won’t find it there.

youtu.be/flBGjpuL4qo?si=NmpVtr0cuH4Ief0r

I'm on my phone. I can't post links. Just search cruelty in dressage. And no , I'm not referring to Charlotte when I say it's been going on for years.

Why is it important to know if I ride?

Thank you nightowl, couldn't have put it better myself

Ah.
I’ve been reading these posts and given this disclosure more thought.

I can now understand why release of this was timed to garner maximum exposure. Clever, really.

If this had been released 4 years ago then she would have got her 6 months suspension and it would have been brushed under the carpet, good on the whistleblower.

Rekarie

I'm on my phone. I can't post links. Just search cruelty in dressage. And no , I'm not referring to Charlotte when I say it's been going on for years.

Why is it important to know if I ride?

I'm just wondering how familiar you are with horses.

Mary Chippendale abused her circus animals, and got results from them.

You don't need to be a horse rider to know that hitting a horses legsnin order to make it perform inherently unnatural movements is cruel.

Yes indeed there have (apparently) been others in the past have got animals to do what they want them to do by cruelty.

MissAdventure

Mary Chippendale abused her circus animals, and got results from them.

You don't need to be a horse rider to know that hitting a horses legsnin order to make it perform inherently unnatural movements is cruel.

I take part of your point, MissA but the 'inherently unnatural' part is incorrect.

Which is why I prefer informed criticism to knee jerk.

I'm reliably informed that hitting anyone or thing that can't get away is wrong.

She whipped the horse's legs.

There is no justifying that.

I've seen a clip from the video. I know nothing about horses, but the animal does look like it is wincing after each whip it receives? I'm really going to have to explore and question my thinking on this sport.

Charlotte DuJardin was using a lunging whip.

These are regularly used when training all horses even in your local riding schools.

They are essential for free lunging (when a horse is riderless and training in a school/menage)

What isn’t usual is for the whip to come into contact with the horse and actually whip it.

They are used to make a noise (crack of the whip) behind the horse or in front in order for the horse to change direction and/or pace. In some circumstances a very gently flick on the horse’s rear, but in my experience is very very rare.

I ride (rarely recently) AC and GC ride and until a few years ago we owned horses, DD competed.

24 times in a minute, she used it, allegedly.

I thought the idea was to crack the whip (if at all) just short of making contact- yes the horse may flinch at the sound, associate it with the whip and try to step higher to avoid in in future. Or bring it close to the legs, again so that the horse will step higher rather than walk into what it sees as an obstacle.
I am not making excuses but just as the movement of a jockeys whip, seen out of the corner of a racehorse’s eye is what makes it go faster rather than any physical contact, all may not be what it seems.

Joseann can you tell me where you found the clip, please. CDJ has said it was unacceptable behaviour and she's been given a suspension so it clearly overstepped the mark.
It is normal practice to use a schooling whip in training but it is never IME used to inflict pain or fear, that would be totally counter-productive. Passage and piaffe are not "unnatural" as suggested upthread. Watch horses in a field playing and you will see them do both. However, when ridden the rider needs to teach the horse the aids so that the horse understands what the rider is asking him to do. This is often started with in hand work using a schooling whip to encourage lift and the voice to further encourage the horse and to add praise, then riders will move on to ridden work with a trainer on the ground so they can transfer the movement to a particular aid given by the rider.
Horses are like people they have their own personalities, some are more reactive/sensitive than others, some are more athletic and some enjoy training others less so. CDJ likes her horses to be very reactive bundles of energy which most amateur riders would not be able to cope with! I wonder if she overstepped the mark with a client's horse out of frustration. I am definitely not excusing her in any way at all but clients pay a lot of money to train with her and tbh some of them expect results which can compromise what is best for the horse and the rider sometimes putting the trainer in a difficult position.
My most expensive horse turned out to be my biggest mistake and it took a very well respected trainer to tell me that my horse needed a different job that it was nothing to do with my riding ability. When I thanked her for her honesty she said many riders would have stopped training with her. I sold him for not much money to a woman who just wanted a lovely safe horse to hack and that was a job he could do and enjoyed. I bought another horse who thrived on training and we both learned so much together. Sorry to go on but dressage is not cruel, it is some people who are cruel to their horses.

I would like to see the video before making any comment on what actually happened.

So far I just object to the labelling of dressage as being 'unnatural' by people who are unfamiliar with horses.

Thanks for your reasonable and informed posts, Foxie48

If you mean me, I actually did ride as a teen.