Archers addicts 3!

Helen's got people now prepared to listen and believe her which is more than some abused people have.

I'm fed up with the way the women of Ambridge are being portrayed at the moment.

Helen - Enough of the deranged victim - Time to get a grip.

Pat - With a mother like you, who needs enemies? - Think before you put your foot in it.....again.

Shula - It's the horse that's supposed to wear the blinkers.

Jess - Not strictly Ambridge but doesn't she read the papers?

Jennifer - Stop wittering about fairies. Your brother needs support.

Usha - Give your hubby a kick up the backside. There's a family in crisis FGS

Fallon and Emma - Could you not offer to help get the shop open?

Pip - No comment!

Peggy - Please stop sucking up to Ursula.

The only ones I have any time for at the moment are Jill, Ruth (at least she found the time to write to Helen) and Kirsty.

Some people would never escape the treatment she's had but I imagine, just as much as we would like a way out, so would she.

I understand your (*wot and merlotgran*) need to move on but I feel a little "judge not lest ye be judged" when I consider them. I have said before that I think Helen would have little control over she behaves at this point. The real Helen might never come out of this, plead to the lower charge and spend a long time in prison with severe mental problems.

As for Pat - I have seen suggestions on here early on about what she should have done which, when we realised how the law works, would have gone against both her and Tony and against Helen. I am sure they will deal with what comes along as they understand more about the law. They might have done better if they were criminals and not good people sadly.

Shula and Jess (and others) don't yet know what Helen is going to plead and there will have been nothing in the papers since the beginning as it will be sub-judice.

Jennifer and Peggy may yet come up as supportive - mother and daughter are quite alike so I am not sure - they have probably been delivering food when we were not eavesdropping, I do hope so. I do think the Aldridge family could be more help on the farm - perhaps David will let them know the BFAs are struggling.

I have a feeling we could all have been found wanting if, heaven forbid, we were in this situation. It will wind its way through but we were never going to get - stabs him, arrested, sees what he has been doing, family understand it all, everyone knows what to do to help, goes to court, goes home and lives happily ever after with Henry in a month

How do you know Gracegran, that I speak from no experience? I'm not being controversial, just saying.

I used to be very meek but realised way of life is as a victim. I do believe that perpertrators can sense women who are vunerable. Nowadays, I can speak out if I get angry. It's something one always have to be aware of if you are that type of woman who comes across as helpless.

I don't understand the question wot. I don't think I inferred experience of lack of it. As far as I am aware I just put a different point of view If you would like to explain what you are referring to I will try and answer.

or not of !

We are all venerable in different ways at different times imo wot. That's why it is sometimes difficult to see why someone else fell for a con but I certainly agree that people like Rob target their prey.

Personally I am not sure that anger ever helps. Being assertive is very different to being angry - again imo. Did you see the advert for registering to vote which said some people could have sauce but some couldn't; some could run through the park but some couldn't, etc? There was a women at the bottom of an escalator who, I think, would have thought she was being assertive - I don't think that is assertive at all - she just shouted. Assertiveness needs confidence and therein lies the problem. You can be confident at work but not at home or the other way round or at home but not socially, etc. There are women who hold down powerful jobs who are married to men like Rob so those that know them are both disconcerted and surprised when the truth comes out.

I don't even think you need to be helpless - just being kind and generous can get you into trouble with someone with this sort of personality disorder. I am really glad you feel you have been able to take control of your own life in this way

I'm not sure what I mean either; just that when I got to the stage of getting angry, I felt more empowered than when I was just frightened. I think I have learned more now; to be assertive.

Yes, I remember that advert. She did come across as unpleasant. The last time this sort of situation happened to me, I asked for GN advice. (Wrinkled Gnome!) That's all solved now and we are able to be civil to each other, thanks to me following the advice and ,making clear my boundaries,. Much nicer than going berserk ha ha . Some people take ages to learn, me being one of them.

Gg
Did you mean venerable (as in the venerable Bede) or vulnerable?
I'm sure I'm both!

Doesn't Tony have a weak heart? Isn't he not long recovered from a near death experience with a bull? Shouldn't he be getting some support from his wife or has she totally forgotten that Helen is his daughter as well?

FGS, Pat. Unless you want to add grieving widow to your list of OTT wailing performances, GET A BLOODY GRIP.

All that noise in court should have had them evicted.

I feel for all the Bridge Farm family and like some others here, I'm not sure any of us would do any better in such shocking and unusual circumstances. They seem to be wading through treacle, doing their best but finding themselves lacking just when they'd thought they might be helping.

Is Helen in labour, or had she finally got into a meltdown after hearing that Henry saw her stab Rob and said so in his interview. She may also have realised that her mum wasn't there because she was one of the close family/friends the prosecution feared Helen may try and influence if given bail.

Wot, I certainly didn't mean to be hurtful in any way. I have always thought that being assertive doesn't come naturally to most Brits and we are always learning. I find the tables have turned and I am learning from my DD these days she is amazingly good at being both calm and assertive - usually just when I am loosing the plot with a complaint, etc.

Galen I meant vulnerable but, like you, both probably apply. Actually I may not be old enough to be venerable (why do I think you have to be old?) but when I am that sort of age I hope I am considered venerable - I have a feeling away with the fairies is more likely.

merlot I am a lot more worried about your blood pressure than Tony's heart. we have got to get through to September when the trial begins I am sure the actress who plays Pat will go on strike if she doesn't get some "strong Pat" episodes.

September Iam do you think we will last 'til then? I think that length of time will give the BFAs time to get to grips though. After a while even the abnormal becomes the norm sadly.

I am waiting to hear the "not guilty" and "self defence" wiz round the village - that might shake a few people.

Gracegran, I know you didn't mean to be hurtful. Everything's fine ?

Yes I do believe we'll last till September. I'm relieved it's going to be early September as we're going away later that month and I may not be able to listen. wot, good to hear everything is fine. This story line has caused lots of us to recall things we'd firmly put on the back burner.

I cannot understand why nobody at all has said to Anna that Helen contacted a domestic violence charity, that she had talked to Jess, that Kirsty had had to give her a mobile phone, that Kirsty knew she had been hit .........well I could go on. The whole legal process is proceeding without some of the key information. Why are they not telling Anna?

Only Helen knows about ringing the charity Luckygirl and even if they recognised her - very unlikely as she didn't give her name - they would not be able to say because of data protection. If and when she remembers, they did give her a reference number that would refer back to any recording or notes on the conversation.

There is no reason to believe Jess knows - she does not live in Borcetshire.

The police know Kirsty gave her a mobile phone and Helen mentioned it to Anna.

The police know Helen told Kirsty she had been hit but it is hearsay - she did not see it.

It is going to take a lot of building of "possible" events to make the jury to doubt that she didn't do it deliberately which would get rid of the attempted murder charge but not the lesser charge. To get off that she must show she was defending either herself of Henry. Many women in abusive situations do go to jail because it is difficult to put forward a defence. I imagine we have all said at some time that you never really know what goes on behind closed doors and proving it is very difficult.

I think (bar room lawyer I know ) that I may be important to have a psychiatric assessment at some point and it will also help Helen to have some professional help.

Of them all I think Pat is now the weakest link. She is older (64) and has lost a lot of her practical self with all that they have had to cope with as a family - but that can happen. After so many times of being the strong one - as a doctor once said to me - what resources has she left to draw on.

I seem to recall that in the USA the defence can call in an expert. I'm not sure that's the case in the Uk but no doubt the prosecution could. So far, the family court is involved with Henry only in private law. I wonder if when Rob applies for a Residence Order that will prompt Helen to ask the court to leave the baby with her. That could trigger a contest in the family court when expert reports could be ordered. I'm hoping Helen could be diagnosed with either ptsd or stockholme syndrome for example, so lessening the chance of a custodial sentence. The family courts don't usually finalise until after the criminal proceedings.
I feel for Pat, she's reacting to events like so many of us do when in crisis. She needs to take a step back, get some independent support in her own right and start responding calmly rather than leaping into the next thing in front of her.

Like most people I know so little about family courts Iam (and what I know I am not sure I like but then I have to remember I just don't know ) so it is good to get some understanding.

As far as Helen's trial is concerned we could certainly have expert witnesses called and I hope we not only get a psychiatric report but if they reporting PTSD or similar she may loose the children because she cannot protect them. I would also like to see and an expert on coercive controlling behaviour (CCB). One of the things that comes to mind is this is not Rob Titchener v Helen Titcherner, it is the crown v Helen and I think Rob would find it difficult that he cannot manipulate the evidence to show himself in the best light. An expert on CCB and a good barrister could, without addressing him directly, tear him apart so that he looses his temper in the court, which seems to be what happens when people like him feel a loss of control.

Don't worry that a family court would rule a parent out only on the basis of a diagnoses of ptsd or similar, that wouldn't stop Helen protecting her children. In a situation like this, the court would want expert reports on both parents. I can't see any competent psychologist not seeing through rob. I'm not a psychologist but that hasn't stopped me speculating about personality problems or even a personality disorder. His need to control, the easy charm but no real friends etc. The family courts are familiar with the Helen - rob relationship

Thank Iam that makes a lot of sense.

I have seen some lawyers - on their company blogs - writing about the story but no psychologists - now that would be interesting

Just had a horrible thought - knowing they like to test our staying power - if they brought an expert witness in to give evidence on Helen's side couldn't they bring one in on the prosecution to talk about Helen's mental health. Oh dear, I wish I hadn't thought about that ...

in the family court if it's agreed an expert is needed, the expert would often be supplied with medical records, they'd use psych testing, interview the individual, diagnose and if nec make treatment /timescale for treatment recommendations.