Archers Addicts 4!!

LG, as I was going out this morning there was a bit on the car radio about just what you are saying. It was on Women's Hour.

Guests: Polly Neat, CEO, Women’s Aid (PN)and Elspeth Thompson, Family lawyer in Newcastle (ET)
Interviewer: Jennie Murray (JM)
JM: Elspeth, the same judge is presiding over the family court as presided over the criminal case. How likely is that?
ET: In my experience very unlikely. I was surprised to hear that last night although judges have transferable skills, it's very rare that you would see a Circuit Judge sitting in a Criminal Court and sitting in a family court the next week.
JM: It’s also all happening very quickly. How long would it all take in a real case?
ET: Much longer. As an Archer’s fan I am very pleased we are being put out of our misery sooner rather than later but, in the real world, it would take weeks if not months to get all the evidence together and get court time to deal with the issues.
JM: Now how much, again in a real case, would a judge, knowing a background of coercive control and rape, even if he or she had not sat on the criminal case but knowing the background, take account of the father’s behaviour in making a contact decision?
ET: Well there’s a piece of law call Practice Direction 12J which sets out exactly what the court needs to do if they have got reason to believe there has been domestic violence or abuse and this piece of law explains very clearly that includes controlling behaviour and coercive control and arrangements have to be made, firstly to work out what’s happened and what the factual basis is and then secondly to work out whether it is safe for the child or for the parent looking after the child.

There is much more here but this gives a flavour and answers some of the questions. There is something about Helen's mental health which is interesting and then Polly neat explains about reality. It is here and is right at the beginning.
There is a bit about how a 'Rob' would act too and about the likelihood of the abuse of a child.

Sorry for any errors!

Thanks Graces quite enlightening. Will have a listen. Keep missing women's hour and must put it on pod cast as they have other interesting items.

I catch a lot of programmes I otherwise wouldn't in the car LG. The downside is I sometimes hear Gardener's Question Time three times in a week

I missed Women's Hour this morning (busy being a mum and grannie, it was lovely) I'll try and catch up but we're away for the weekend, which may get in the way

It's good to read the comments from the family lawyer which confirm what we all know, it's so unlikely as to be impossible for a judge (even one with a 'family ticket') to sit on a family case which s/he heard when sitting in crime. Still, it simplifies things and truncates the timescale because the lawyer is right. To gather and evaluate the evidence following the criminal trial and to find a slot in the court timetable, long enough to hear complex private law evidence would almost certainly mean long delays. But - the court would have to consider the allegations and decide on an interim basis where the boys should live and who they should see.
Some of the forums are full of people expressing anger/irritation about this story line. I think it's been successful in being entertaining and also in raising awareness of abuse of women and children.

Tonight's episode, an unlikely scenario, but rather lovely, none the less!

Cue Joe dying????????

Yes - I thought he was going to croak on the spot!

It is so nice to start to hear other characters come in. It has been a great story line and one that will have ripples in Ambridge, at Bridge Farm and on forums where there will be 'do you remember when' comments for years to come but most of all the world (well our bit of it) knows much more about these important things.

I am so glad the Grundys are staying although I am not sure I could be so big hearted and David and Ruth remembering Jude - some people just make bad choices I suppose.

I am rarely irritated by the young people on the Archers because we've all been irritating young people haven't we. I'm making an exception for Pip. What have her parents ever done to deserve such a rude, entitled daughter? Am I missing something where they taught her to be rude and unpleasant to her parents?

I tend to do a Miss Marple Iam, and try to think of people I know with a similar personality, but I don't think I can think of a 'Pip' type. She seems to hurl herself towards the cliff - or in this case Toby - like a lemming and I can't think what it is in her nature that makes her do that! My only thought is Bathsheba in Far From the Madding and I never really understood her ... Gabriel Oak was such a nice guy. Perhaps Rex is her Gabriel

Saw an Archers' SW today. Told how gripped the team's work we all are, he said he'd tell them. Also mentioned that if Henry's story goes on 30 years (which it almost certainly would IRL) some of us won't be around to hear it.
Should have chanted 'We want Stefan' but forgot. Lovely to hear Joe happy at last. Oliver, the bringer of peace! When will he re-think about employing robbing Rob?

Just listened to all of this weeks episodes in a mammoth catch up session. So happy for Joe.

How lovely that you could pass on those messages Elrel.

I have been thinking that, if the SS have managed to ask the right questions Rob may get supervised contact. I was so sad to hear on the Woman's Hour clip that, in real life it would be likely that Ursula would be appointed to supervise and not Pat

When did Oliver employ Rob Elrel ?

I think she was confusing Oliver with Justin.

As I thought.

Of course, we know Ursula is up to her neck in Rob's approach to childcare/marriage but people aren't always honest when talking to cafcass/children's services. The assessment May not have identified concerns she may collude with Rob's grooming/emotional abuse of Henry She may have convinced the assessor that having listened to the evidence, she now understands her son is a problem, believes he raped both his former wives and will protect Henry from any inappropriate comments or emotional pressure. If that is so, it's probably thought to be best for Henry to visit daddy along with Grandma Ursula. Pat's presence would no doubt cause tension.

I know I know, don't shoot me please.

Iam I think that Ursula, who is not a psychopath, really believes what she is saying without having the insight to know why others may find it extreme so I am hoping she has given herself away although I am aware I am straw clutching again.

I was surprised they said that in RL it would probably be Ursula rather than Pat as I hadn't even given it a thought about it being Pat. I thought, if it was supervised, it would be at a centre with Social Workers.

I'm finding it difficult to follow this thread sometimes as I read SW as social worker not script writer!

That's exactly why I wrote Social Worker in full Nfk. I had put SWs and then realised we use that far more often for Script Writer. Confusing yourself is not good

I have just read an alarming article in Guardian today about family courts. MPs were debating research by Woman's Aid - between 2005 and 2015, 19 children were killed by violent fathers who had been given access through family courts. Apparently the system is prejudiced against abused women, and it is worth reading the report in full. Men using family courts to abuse mothers, say MPs. Sorry I wish I could do links on iPad. If TA follows the RL pattern of our family court system Henry will definitely be seeing a lot of Rob.

MPs call for end to abusive men using courts against families

I think this is it LG

Thanks Gracesgran it was appreciated!

Thanks Graces Is it easy to do? I have tried but lost the link in the cloud or somewhere?

Thanks for that and GG. It just shows how the law can be used in the wrong hands. Surely a change is overdue.
We had a child with an abusive mother at school. All the children were removed but she still had contact. The boy was a complete wreck before and after visitation. We had to plead to stop her rights. Why should someone who abuses have rights?

I suppose it is a greyer area with coercive control as there are no bruises and cuts. However still.as.dangerous.

It isn't difficult LG but I can't do it on my Kindle. On the computer:

1. I have both the article page and the GN page open.
2. Click on the address bar on the article page so it is highlighted.
3. Copy. I find the easiest way just to press Ctrl C
4. Paste in the "Add your message here" box (Ctrl V)
5. Leave one space at the end of the address
6. Type or copy over the text you want to show.
7. At the beginning of the address put [[
8. At the end of the text you want to show put ]]

That should work I hope I haven't made it sounds as if I don't think you know but I didn't want to miss anything.