A very English Scandal

It wasn't just an "affair" Annie it was a lifestyle that involved passing girls around like dolls. I don't know what my milkman or my postman do in their private lives, but then they aren't part of the government, making laws and presenting themselves as impeccable. It is nothing to do with wealth and everything to do with power and deception. I had considered you had very high morals after all your posts about JC (I got him in first this time me!!!) it seems that they are not only flexible but actually non-existant. Who would have known?

Is it also their choice to become dependent on alcohol and substances?

Ah. That’s the rub. You see sex work as immoral. A term that shows a lack of respect for those who do a job that you disapprove of and despise because it doesn’t fit in with your idea of morality.

Easier to think that those who do that job must be victims, coerced, have something wrong in their make up than to question your own notions of morality and your attitudes towards others.

Wasn’t JC the one who was accused of being friends with prostitutes by the Pharisees?

I disagree, both Keeler and Rice Davies were not imprisoned in Ward’s house and driven to sex parties, they chose these life styles . Nothing to do with my morals, all I am saying is these girls chose their life styles and were not victims, comparing them with the children in Rotherham was so wrong, those girls were used and abused .

You just will not accept or admit that many girls who sleep around do so from choice.

As a married man Profumo was an adulterer, Ward was not. You are only concerned with men of wealth, I see no difference in a MP or a milkman if married having affairs or flings .

Fact, some girls choose to use their bodies as a means to make a living.

Profumo was more than an adulterer Annie but interesting that you continue to blame the girls and excuse the men. It's a bit Victorian you know.

Thank goodness some girls do choose to sleep around through choice, although it wasn't common in 1961 and you never comment on Keeler's sad history or the fact that Rice Davies was only 17 and therefore a child by today's standards, let alone 1961 when the age of majority was 21.

I have not excused the men, Profumo was in the wrong he was married, Keeler was wrong to have a fling with a married man, only difference is she was making a living, supose they both got what they wanted, he sexual excitement she money for her bank account.

My own opinion on these sex parties is all who take part, male and female have low morals.

Girls sleeping around in the sixties wasn’t common ? You jest

1961 was only just the 60s Annie the "Summer of Love" wasn't until '68
Still no comment about an abusive childhood and a 17 year old. Just overlook them. I'm sure the men involved did.

Oh dear trisher your comments show you to be obsessed by ‘rich men’ ! As Annie points out, the job of the man involved is immaterial.
Profumo need not have been a politician, he need only have been a successful businessman with money to throw around which would have attracted those young women.
They didn’t want a lowly working job themselves, they wanted an easy life and if it meant sleeping around, they were fine with that.

Let’s stop the ‘all rich men are evil’ stuff.

trisher, I was the first to speak of the abuse suffered by ?Keeler, no mention from you of ‘Mandy’s Candies nightclub ‘ owned by a victim of wealthy men.

Mandy Rice Davies married a rich Israeli and opened a night club (in fact 3 night clubs) in Israel. Isn't she allowed to do anything? According to you she deserved everything she got, but not apparently any success.
She was 15 when she started work as a Saturday model. 17 when she met Keeler.
I am not "obsessed with rich men" I do think men who are in power and have influence shouldn't present one face to the public while behaving in an immoral and unprincipled way. And all the excuse making on this thread is the reason a culture of sexual abuse still exists at all levels in our society.
I don't see sex work as immoral Eglantine21 and if you can find where I have said I do please point it out. The immorality is with men who use vulnerable girls. Keeler was abused by her mother's lover and his friends as a teenager. In 1951 she was diagnosed as suffering from malnutrition and sent to a holiday home. At 17 she gave birth to a baby which died. But of course she was a topless dancer and deserved everything she got. The lack of compassion shown by some people astounds me

Yes trisha, so was Mandy Rice Davies a defenceless abused girl or a girl who knew what she wanted and how to get it

I have never said ?Keeler deserved to lose her baby, all I have said is they did a job they chose , so don’t accuse me of saying things I have not said or even thought. If girls choose to be topless hostesses their choice, you want to push the ‘all these girls are victims of wealthy, powerful men. Rachman May have been wealthy but powerful ? I suppose as powerful as the Krays. Ward wealthy and powerful ? No way, the Russian ?

I'm with trisher in stating clearly, I don't see sex work as immoral. I don't agree with your post Eglantine, I don't share the cold and critical views you suggest are held by those of us who don't necessarily see the 'choice' of sex work as an entirely positive one.
I don't judge. I'd be unhappy if any of my grandsons, granddaughters, daughters or sons in law/partners in law chose sex work as a way of making a living. It's often risky. There are no guarantees about making enough to pay the bills. One of my sons in law runs his own business and those are the risks he takes however, those risks don't include being beaten up by clients, blackmailed, -etc.

I wouldn’t want my grandchildren to work in the sex trade but this is about the choice , I think boxing is brutal but accept it’s their choice .

It is is risky to have sex or put yourself in a vulnerable position with strangers whether you are paid or unpaid. But not all sex work is like this stereotype.

Some women are vulnerable and are forced into sex work but not all. It comes down to an underlying belief that surely nobody would do this kind of work unless they had to, that comes from those who would never undertake sex work unless they were forced and project those feelings onto others.

But not everyone feels like that and to suggest that if you are a sex worker you must have been abused, coerced, that something must be wrong with you is offensive and not respectful of the choice they have made.

In regard to risk, a number of jobs are risky: the police are regularly abused, verbally and physically, medical staff often suffer abuse, the armed forces put their lives at risk. As a teacher I have been threatened several times, once with a machete, but the choice to do these jobs is not questioned. So I don’t think it is the risk element that is primarily in people’s minds when they would not like their relatives involved in sex work.

In some sex work the risk is negligible. Much, much less than any of the jobs listed above.

Actually, think it’s time to admit we’ll never feel conforable with each other’s point of view on this one. I’m not flouncing but I think I’m about done with the subject now.

These people (both sexes) put themselves at risk of STDs which are now becoming more resistant to antibiotics.

It's interesting that you mention boxing anniebach and that you are of the opinion, as are most people, that it is an acceptable "sport" because the people who participate have chosen to do so.

My own feeling is that those who take up professional boxing tend not to have benefited from a good education and quite often come from very modest backgrounds. You won't find many highly educated sons of professional people on the professional boxing circuit. You may say, so what, lots of poorly educated people have a limited choice as to the jobs that are open to them, which is true. However, there are significant health implications in doing a job that will inevitably involve being punched in the head on a regular basis, for the enjoyment of others.

There are also significant health and safety implications in being involved in sex work and, whilst there are no doubt highly educated women from very comfortable backgrounds who make this choice, I think research suggests they are few and far between.

Eleothan, I didn’t mean boxing is acceptable to me, I think it’s vile,
You are so right that boxers do not come from wealthy families, they use their bodies as do girls who choose to be nightclub hostesses etc.

I always thought Randy Mice knew exactly what she was doing. A short while after leaving school she went back to visit, poodle in tow, and was praised to the assembled girls. The headmistress told them that this ex-pupil was a successful London model and an example to them all.

MRD may well be an example for how a woman who took up a low grade manual job such as sex work managed to become well paid.

a low grade manual job
Well, that's the first time I've heard it called that.

I would have thought some of the work must be very skilled.