21 Kids and Counting.

It would be none of our business if it wasn't beamed into our living rooms, paddyann.

We do have a right to comment on what is deemed entertainment.

The UK is NOT overpopulated ,thats a myth.We in Scotland are keen to have immigrants and even extra babies .We NEED immigrants .The very south of England my be overpopulated but that is because so many companies locate there .
If every second family of child bearing age was having 21 children then all those who are screaming about the cost to society MIGHT have apoint , as it is its ONE family.
Like mcem the large family I know went on to produce ,one church minister ,one dentist ,two lawyers a couple of primary school teachers and not one of the rest didn't WORK for a living .The tax collected from them was likely to have paid for their child benefit ,although that wasn't much in the 50's and 60's and their parents didn't get social security payments .Their dad like the dad on the programme worked for them .
As to the father being prosecuted for under age sex,I dont think that happened back then,didn't they just squirrel the girl away and have her baby adopted? So they did better than most teen mums by managing to hold onto the first baby instead of repeating their own story of adoptions .
I am so sorry I offended people by saying that its none of their business ,but it really isn't.These will be the same folk who are excited about the royals breeding like rabbits ..I believe theres another new baby on the cards...according to the press.You all going to complain about what THAT one costs ?

For every child that's born, there are umpteen who are dying-------thus balancing equilibrium etc.
It used to be 151,000 people a second died worldwide to 173 births per second. So work that out on a ratio of births and deaths per year.

I feel people like Janie Oliver’s wife who wants a 6 th child and Gordon Ramsey’s wife expecting 5 th are v bad examples at moment. Not judging on a personal way but regarding climate change. 12 yrs to change things areound. People require resources, full stop and the planet just cannot feed what the expected population is expected to be in a few decades time. It’s just a fact. The super rich will still be able to get food on the black market though!

The UK is overpopulated, the world is overpopulated, that 's why there is so much poverty and homelessness. Soon there will not be not enough resources to go round to feed everyone on the planet and animals will suffer too, of course. It's very irresponsible for the human race to produce more than two children per mother.

Oh yes! D&V for 21!!!!

I am just amazed by the fact that they buy a new pram for each new baby. None of my children ever had a new pram/pushchair/cot - all second hand!

I wondered too chewbacca!

Sorry Hollydoilly10? Your post at 16.25. What does this mean?

I just look at the size of the family and think what on earth does she do when they all suffer with a sickness and diarrhoea bug!! All those beds to change!

Just a word on earlier sweeping statements about their adoptions being the reason for the parents' wish for a big family.

DD1 has 4 children and DD2 has none - her choice!
Both are adopted so make of it what you will.

I grew up with a family of 13 as neighbours. The parents were staunch catholics. The children grew up to be 4 teachers (including 2HT's), a university lecturer, 1 RAF pilot/senior instructor, 2 civil engineers, a chartered accountant, 3 senior-grade nurses and can't remember the others. All completed 6 years education at the local academy (ie Scottish academy, post 11plus so grammar school equivalent).

(Although the posts were deleted I regret that yet more anti-immigrant, racist comments were made by the same poster who sets out to spread such nastiness whether or not they are relevant to the thread.)

She probably had cancer because of those children who died.
Its not up to us to be annoyed when something someone else doesn't affect us.

The vlogs on YouTube show just how much fame they are courting.

Christmas Eve Eve. Who celebrates that?

Christmas Eve was like a rehearsal for the actual day with presents in named sacks under the tree, chocolate, new PJs for all and a festively laid table for breakfast? with all those kids? Christmas Day was an orgy of present opening. All carefully orchestrated for the camera.

Every aspect of their lives is filmed with Sue coming across like an excited child. Noel stays in the background but is firmly in control - especially in the new kitchen.

It has nothing to do with anyone, except that they have courted publicity and fame.

This! 100% .

Interestingly the first baby seems to not agree to being filmed.

The mum heavily pressures the older girls to get (and keep getting) pregnant young. Its as if she wants them to validate her life by choosing similar.

Would anybody be happy to see their 13 year old daughter or grand daughter pregnant by an 18 year old?

If she was PREGNANT at 13 then its not unlikely that the relationship/grooming started when she was 12? 11?

I don't think its honourable that he stayed sniffing around. It was her parents who supported her with the first baby.

I think its a bit gass-lighty of him to tell her that because she had more babies when she was old enough to consent, that that made the earlier non consensual sex okay

She wouldnt be the first girl to stay in a relationship with her abuser as she got older. And really what other life does she know?

It certainly wasn’t normal to have babies at 13 not in U.K. not in my era anyway, 50s 60 s 70 s 80 s that’s a hell of a cop out it was child abuse if she had the baby at 13 then she was probably abused at 12 and yes it is abuse whether he stood by her or not
I suppose it becomes other people s business when it’s being streamed into your living room Their privacy is the pay off for their considerable large fees gained and that includes good or bad reviews They could have kept all the ins and outs private Lottie

18 is very different to 13.

Would anybody be happy to see their 13 year old daughter or grand daughter pregnant by an 18 year old?

It is a criminal offense for good reason.

It has nothing to do with anyone, except that they have courted publicity and fame.

I quite agree paddyann. What on earth has it to do with anyone else how many children they have. We all had child benefit ......I had 4 children! Let’s not be so judgmental. Good luck to them I say.

Attitudes change - and attitudes can change back again. At one time it would have been the people with large families who started them young (yes at 13 in some times and places) who were the norm, and those who had none or stopped at 2 and the women go to work and go out in the evenings who would have been seen disapproved of. The fact she held it together in spite of her young age, and with the same father for all the children, and that he took the legal risk of standing by her instead of pretending it was nothing to do with him, speaks a lot for their characters. As for the criminal charges, I believe the police are not obliged to step in when a post-pubertal teenager is willingly having sex, unless a complaint is made, or unless the teenager appears to be at risk (not the case if she has supportive carers). It's different with younger children of course. Also they were both teenagers of an age range where a natural attraction could develop and it's not like someone old enough to be her father was grooming her.

She said in interview that it was "normal back then"
Meaning 80s/90s
It most certainly wasn't.

Thanks notanan

Yes, it was a crime - who was in loco parentis of this girl at the time, I wonder? Was she in foster care or in a children's home?

She and the baby lived with her adoptive parents.

I think he was a neighbour and friend of an older brother.

Presumably he was never reported, which is why I asked who was in loco parentis

If the mother had her first child when she was thirteen,did she have any more children before she reached the age of consent?
I presume they got married the moment she was 16 but like others I am surprised that he wasn't found guilty of having sex with a minor.

I must confess I didn't watch the programme oldbatty.
But I do think it is down to choice, whether or not that is an ethical choice or not is a moot point.

Yes, it was a crime - who was in loco parentis of this girl at the time, I wonder? Was she in foster care or in a children's home?