Anne Boleyn

Did any of you see the channel 4 production of Catherine the Great? It was comedic but had actors of all colours and races sprinkled thickly among the Russian and Swedish courts which really only emphasised the absurdity of it all. I actually enjoyed it but it was pretty intentionally daft. A series with Anne Boleyn in it won't be much fun.

So are are all the Boleyn family black? Should we not notice, but we do, it’s silly saying otherwise. Try not attending an identity parade because you don’t see looks. You should be accurate when portraying a famous person. Would you approve of a white Martin Luther King? I won’t watch it because it would annoy me, history is my passion. It’s extremely interesting about the Kell gene with Henry whom I wondered if he had damaged his brain whilst jousting and took a bad fall, he suffered extreme concussion afterwards.

Appropriating my culture

Sarnia

Why is a black woman playing Anne Boleyn? Has this been done to appease those who want to change our history? I, for one, am fed up with the people who graffiti, damage and remove anything from British history that they don't agree with. History has happened, it is past, you can't change it but you can learn from it. Anne Boleyn was white so she should be played by a white actress. If Benedict Cumberbatch announced he was playing Martin Luther-King there would be hell to pay.

I totally agree with what you are saying. It taking thing too far and for what purpose. To shove racism in our faces. I’m white and I am not racist. I’m sick to death of this being pushed. I’ve never witnessed racism in my life either so where has all this happened in this generation

25Avalon

Doodledog you claim I am criticising woke. What I said was Why is it that if anyone criticises woke they are accused of being racist referring to Seamstresses response to Aveline.

The word 'woke' has been appropriated by those who want to disparage people who are trying to be considerate of others.

Whether you (or anyone else) thinks that this consideration is misplaced or not, IMO it is lazy and facile speech, which doesn't explain the thinking behind the accusation, so the person being accused of it is unable to respond.

If there is a reason why a word, a thought or a course of action is wrong, why not say what it is, rather than just throwing around a fairly imprecise term?

Sparkling

So are are all the Boleyn family black? Should we not notice, but we do, it’s silly saying otherwise. Try not attending an identity parade because you don’t see looks. You should be accurate when portraying a famous person. Would you approve of a white Martin Luther King? I won’t watch it because it would annoy me, history is my passion. It’s extremely interesting about the Kell gene with Henry whom I wondered if he had damaged his brain whilst jousting and took a bad fall, he suffered extreme concussion afterwards.

Anne Boleyn’s claim to fame had nothing to with her skin colour so it matters not that the role is taken by a black actor. However MLK ‘s claim to fame has everything to do with his being black therefore he couldn’t logically be played by a white actor.

Fab post Lucca
Usually I can see both sides of argument. I can flip flop all over the place.
But with this - I honestly can't see why it's an issue.

Lucca, exactly.

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.

Or why it is such an issue for some people.

I think people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing. They also didn’t read seamstresses post carefully. She said that woke was a sneering comment to anyone who challenged racism, it didn’t say that the person doing the sneering was racist. Calling something or someone “ woke nonsense” is a sneer, and it is directed to those challenging racism or bringing awareness to it. Just because you personally have never experienced it , does not mean it does not exist.

There would be an unholy row for sure if a white Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela was used, riots in the street probably.
But that’s different, isn’t it.

Katie59 yes it is different- both of those gentlemen you mentioned were leaders in civil rights/ anti apartheid movement and fighting discrimination against those who were defined by their race / skin colour, therefore their skin colour is important as they were treated appallingly on the basis of their colour. Any film or story about their lives would be about race and colour. Why can’t some people comprehend that?

Katie59

There would be an unholy row for sure if a white Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela was used, riots in the street probably.
But that’s different, isn’t it.

Lucca explained very well why a white actor playing MLK is entirely different to a black actor playing Anne Boleyn.

It would be interesting though, wouldn't it, to have an alternative history series where people of colour had arrived in the US first, and enslaved Europeans. Might give some food for thought. In fact I think Bernardine Evaristo wrote such a book.

Alegrias1

Katie59

There would be an unholy row for sure if a white Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela was used, riots in the street probably.
But that’s different, isn’t it.

Lucca explained very well why a white actor playing MLK is entirely different to a black actor playing Anne Boleyn.

It would be interesting though, wouldn't it, to have an alternative history series where people of colour had arrived in the US first, and enslaved Europeans. Might give some food for thought. In fact I think Bernardine Evaristo wrote such a book.

Also Malorie Blackman's recently televised Noughts and Crosses.

Katie59

There would be an unholy row for sure if a white Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela was used, riots in the street probably.
But that’s different, isn’t it.

I addressed that 3 posts above yours....for the second time

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202105/medium-625919-13011946-6a40-492d-b54d-688a9588b546.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202105/medium-744974-99ccf607-13a8-4396-9834-07e26d0f2cf0.jpeg

So. This is Jonny Cash’s first wife Vivien and the actress who portrayed her in the film Walk the Line. I’ll just leave this here….

I was just going to post that!!

You read Twitter too ??

I think we are at the stage where a lot of people are not bothering to read the thread, and repeating things that have been answered over and over.

The main objections seem to be:
It is not historically accurate to have a black Anne
No, but we don’t really know what she looked like. Height, eye colour, weight etc are all largely guesswork, so why focus on skin colour?

It is ‘woke’ or changing history to ‘appease’ BLM supporters
It won’t change anything - what happened happened, and until we have seen it we won’t know if the director is making a political point or not, or how successfully or otherwise it is made (if indeed there is a political point).

What if a white actor played the role of a black character? Blood would run in the streets
White actors have played black characters since the beginning of film and tv. Blacking up is not acceptable these days, but none of that is really the point, which is that if colour is relevant to the role, the skin colour of the cast matters ^ which is one of the reasons why blacking up is offensive^. Anne’s colour was not a part of her story.

I am not going to watch it as it will be inaccurate and ‘woke’
Your prerogative, but it seems very closed-minded (to me) to not even give it a try before boycotting it.

Have I missed anything?

FannyCornforth

Fab post Lucca
Usually I can see both sides of argument. I can flip flop all over the place.
But with this - I honestly can't see why it's an issue.

That's very much how I am and how I feel.

I am absolutely certain that a number of white actors have played Othello. In fact last time I looked both Anthony Hopkins and Laurence Olivier were white, at least I think they were. Didn’t matter, did it ? Neither should this.

Othello is fiction.

Much of the film about AB will be fiction too

People made a fuss about a possible black James Bond - that is fiction too.

vegansrock

People made a fuss about a possible black James Bond - that is fiction too.

And a female Doctor Who.

I have a theory about James Bond. That "James Bond" is a code name that goes with 007 and there have been lots of people in that position over the years. So it would be no problem at all to have a black Bond. Or a female one, or anything else.

I probably have too much time on my hands Anyway, back to the proper discussion.