The Reckoning - Savile

What sickens me are those stupid women in the audience who laugh at every single thing he says.

We're back to the Milgram Experiment, though. There would have been someone holding up 'laugh' cards, and they would have been told at the start that they should laugh when asked to. It's probably less about being stupid than about having been brought up to obey 'authority' and do as they are told. This was the 70s, and attitudes to women were different, but I suspect that if the experiment got past an ethics committee today (doubtful) the results would be very similar.

Anniebach

I don’t watch them, documentaries yes, dramas no

Well if you watch the documentary Jimmy Savile, A British Horror Story you will see that it covers the letters from the royals amongst the other questions you have asked on this thread. You actually see the letters, and the then Prince of Wales' signature on the headed palace paper.

I don't understand why you seem so outraged that as these things have come to light people are interested in what was going on under our noses for so long. It's absolutely fine to prefer documentaries to dramas, but that's not what you are really saying, is it? You are suggesting that the drama is somehow designed to cast aspersions on an innocent man, which is far from the case.

Documentaries often use similar ways of compressing bits of evidence in the interests of keeping to time. They might say 'letters show', or 'many people have said', which is no different from the way drama works. Drama often reaches a wider audience than documentary, and is every bit as open to legal challenge if it gets 'facts' wrong. The scriptwriters won't have made things up - they may have put the words of several people into the mouth of one semi-fictional character, but that's not the same thing at all.

Anyway, many people won't believe documentaries either when they question the behaviour of men on the word of women. Look at the Russell Brand one as an example - it's depressing.

I don’t watch Netflix. Private letters are private. Portraying
some one in a confessional is making things up.

Private letters are private

Possibly not, if the contents are shown to be in the public interest / in order to convict someone, for instance.

There was no one on trial

What do you think should have happened, Annie? Should Savile have died and been 'left alone', with his victims never being heard?

Did it all depend on what his mother may have said in the confessional ?

Anniebach

Did it all depend on what his mother may have said in the confessional ?

No.

What would you have preferred to be the outcome of the Savile case? If there had not been an expose in the first place, the stories of all the women, boys and girls would have died with him. Does that feel like justice to you?

I don't understand what seems to be your defence of him. As I say, people watch and don't watch whatever they like, but you seem to have read or seen nothing on the matter, yet you are questioning everything people who have seen the programme(s) on the fairness of the reporting. Why?

Justice was done by what his mother may or may not have said in the sanctuary of the confessional ? Not true

I have said I do not agree with private letters being exposed in a documentary and portrayal of a mother in a confessional included in a drama , nothing defending Savile

Watching made me think how gullible naive and trusting we were . I'm 73 now and realised how I trusted those in authority and as a mother hoped my children were safe . We of course knew their were dirty ole men around and I spoke to my children about these people . But looking back I can see how mums would wave their children off to exciting adventures . Those poor children , those poor mothers and fathers , it's heartbreaking. We watched the Vile creature on TV and although he was odd and eccentric I never ever thought he was doing what he did

Let's hope the future generations learn from this ,parents and growing children .

Anniebach

Justice was done by what his mother may or may not have said in the sanctuary of the confessional ? Not true

No, that is not what happened, and nobody has said otherwise.

There has never been any justice for Savilles victims.

I hope that the documentary and drama exposing Savile have given his victims some closure. They have carried the harm done to them for a very long time and at last they can speak of it knowing that they are believed.

Parsley3

I hope that the documentary and drama exposing Savile have given his victims some closure. They have carried the harm done to them for a very long time and at last they can speak of it knowing that they are believed.

That's the best that can come of it now. That and (maybe) a shift in the outlook that disbelieves women in favour of male perpetrators.

And some sort of shift to responding to red flags. Look at the red flags with Brand, in plain sight, but enabled all the way along.

Toetoe

Watching made me think how gullible naive and trusting we were . I'm 73 now and realised how I trusted those in authority and as a mother hoped my children were safe . We of course knew their were dirty ole men around and I spoke to my children about these people . But looking back I can see how mums would wave their children off to exciting adventures . Those poor children , those poor mothers and fathers , it's heartbreaking. We watched the Vile creature on TV and although he was odd and eccentric I never ever thought he was doing what he did

Let's hope the future generations learn from this ,parents and growing children .

That’s true Toetoe.
Re your last paragraph, I think adults are more aware, but how often do we read of children/young people realising they were groomed, or actually deciding for themselves that getting in a car and going to someone’s house for an adult party, without their parent’s knowledge, or sometimes even with their parent’s collaboration is not safe?

In the 50’s I was in the school choir, we were to perform in the
town hall, I lived 4 miles from the town, bus strike, couldn’t
take part , choir master said he would bring those affected home in his car, my father said NO, nothing ever suspicious about the man but my father explained to me why he chose NO.

I'm not sure whether the drama touched on this, but there were a lot of illegal substances -drugs- being passed around too by these DJs. The mother of the dancer I know confronted her daughter over this, and she did tell her mum that much.

Toetoe Let's hope the future generations learn from this, parents and growing children
That is why it is important to show this. Not everyone will watch a documentary but might watch a drama. That way the story reaches more people over the years. Don't forget once this is made it will be shown for many years to come, and children of today will eventually see it. That is a good thing. I guess the lesson to be learnt is 'don't trust anyone' which is very sad but it's better to be safe than sorry.

I think the lesson is 'don't cover up wrongdoing'. The next 'Savile' will be in a different situation, so I don't think we learn direct lessons about how to prevent repetitions from happening. But if the law changes so that anyone shown to have known about accusations but not acted on them can be charged and held accountable, or that large institutions must have policies to ensure that after any accusation is made files must be kept and added to if appropriate, and if a dossier builds up action must be taken, then future generations of women and children will be less likely to suffer in the same way.

We also need a national police data base that connects allegations in different police areas. One of the savile problems was individual complainants were seen in isolation
More importantly societal change that begins to accept child sexual abuse is prevalent. That most offenders look like the rest of us, they’re professionals, lawyers, vicars, teachers, social workers, truck drivers, plumbers, electricians, some are unemployed drunks or drug users. They’re ordinary men who walk among us
When someone like savile or brand hides in plain sight, we should know enough now to call them out. We see you

Agreed, Iam. Joined up thinking is what's necessary, and at the risk of repeating myself once too often - there is no excuse for not believing complainants or for inaction.

Anniebach

In the 50’s I was in the school choir, we were to perform in the
town hall, I lived 4 miles from the town, bus strike, couldn’t
take part , choir master said he would bring those affected home in his car, my father said NO, nothing ever suspicious about the man but my father explained to me why he chose NO.

Why did he “choose NO” if there was nothing suspicious about the man? Should women / girls never trust any men?

There isnt usually anything suspicious. That's the point. Abusive people tend not to wear a sign.