‘N word’ at the BAFTAs

Washerwoman a kind and empathetic post.

Yes, I'm a sure the actors must have been shocked, especially as they are, I think, American, but must have been aware of what someone with Tourette's might say, not in any offensive way but because they cannot help it.
After all, the film that won the awards was called I Swear!

Allira

You're making things up, Tuliptree

No-one has said the two black actors behaved appalling as you claim.

They lacked insight ad empathy, even after the film ‘I Swear’ had just won three awards.
The irony is not lost on me.

How do you know they lacked insight and empathy? You’re making things up

Allira

Washerwoman a kind and empathetic post.

Yes, I'm a sure the actors must have been shocked, especially as they are, I think, American, but must have been aware of what someone with Tourette's might say, not in any offensive way but because they cannot help it.
After all, the film that won the awards was called I Swear!

Saying that you think they are American demonstrates that you haven’t engaged at all with the issue of the N word which resonates in a way we can’t understand as white peoples in the UK. Without being sure they are American I just can’t fathom how you felt qualified to judge them - although I’m still waiting for you to explain your criticisms of them.

Tuliptree

If you can ask that question, then you are not interested in any answer I can give. Clearly you know nothing about American history

Oh don't be silly.

although I’m still waiting for you to explain your criticisms of them.

Yes, I have.

which resonates in a way we can’t understand as white peoples in the UK.
You are making assumptions about me and my family.

Washerwoman

Whilst the N word is vile and is associated with dreadful prejudice,and no doubt in the moment the 2 actors were shocked and upset I should imagine John has suffered just as much prejudice and dreadful treatment in his life for a condition that's out of his control.So yes be upset but also show some empathy towards someone also marginalised. I saw the film an it reduced me to tears.Also his first foul mouthed rant in the film made me react with discomfort. Until I caught myself and thoughts if this is how an actor in a film can provoke such feelings imagine what John has had to live with day to day.

Discrimination isn’t a competition you know - there’s room to feel enormous compassion for JD and have space to feel for black Americans. Also, given that this situation was avoidable if it had been better managed, you’d think anyone that really cared about JD would actually want blame to be allocated where it belongs and for maybe the BBC to behave more responsibly next time and thus protect everyone.. There is no evidence btw that the two black men had no empathy. And you know they are allowed to be upset as well although even if it’s appreciated that JD’s life is indescribably awful. Just being terribly sorry for JD snd saying the only people who should have shown empathy were the two black men does really smack of not wanting anything except black men to learn and change.

Allira

"In the UK, coprolalia (involuntary, obscene vocal tics associated with Tourette Syndrome) is recognized as a disability. While it involves shouting offensive language, it is distinct from hate speech because it lacks intent. Legal protections against discrimination apply, but incidents can cause significant public distress and conflict with free speech/offence laws."

This is worth repeating.

^it is distinct from hate speech because it lacks intent.^

Allira

Allira

"In the UK, coprolalia (involuntary, obscene vocal tics associated with Tourette Syndrome) is recognized as a disability. While it involves shouting offensive language, it is distinct from hate speech because it lacks intent. Legal protections against discrimination apply, but incidents can cause significant public distress and conflict with free speech/offence laws."

This is worth repeating.

*^it is distinct from hate speech because it lacks intent.^*

Of course it lacks intent and however upsetting it may be to be on the receiving end if you know the person has Tourettes you can be forgiving.Or you certainly should be.

Perhaps I didn't word it well.I'm sure for the actors it was a dreadful experience up there on stage and I wasn't putting one kind of prejudice against another.Really its more the pile on that seems to have come from the likes of Jamie Fox and others that are adamant Johns words were said with intent and that it was racism that show a lack of empathy for someone who has also led a very challenging life and experienced prejudice.

Well I didn't hear the slur. I feel left out!

I thought the film was excellent. I cried when I seldom cry. The acting superb.

I don't know why the slur wasn't edited out perhaps in the same way that the film's opening line is F... the Queen!

It was an unexpected but welcome reminder of the condition which the editors thought they should leave in.
It certainly got publicity didn't it.

I didn’t watch either.

I’m pretty clear about what the word was but what did the presenters do that showed a lack of insight and empathy.

I have googled but can’t find out.

Don’t answer if it’s against guidelines and will get you (and me) into trouble.

Why are people offended by a disability? This is the nub of the matter, he can't help what he says. Leave the subject alone and get on with life. It really doesn't need to be chewed over relentlessly with demands for apologies.

I think there’s a bit of a sniff about this incident.
Listening to The Media Show this afternoon 3 bbc employees brought up the issue of the microphone very close to John.
When the crap hit the fan the microphone disappeared 🤷‍♀️

I watched I swear and found it incredibly moving. That poor man snd what courage.
My question though is this: isn't Tourettes about not being able to control the verbal outbursts? In which case the thinking or attitude was there but not controlled..? I don't really understand how something can pop out that isn't already somewhere in your sub-conscious.
Dont shout me down! Genuinely trying to understand.

Franski

I watched I swear and found it incredibly moving. That poor man snd what courage.
My question though is this: isn't Tourettes about not being able to control the verbal outbursts? In which case the thinking or attitude was there but not controlled..? I don't really understand how something can pop out that isn't already somewhere in your sub-conscious.
Dont shout me down! Genuinely trying to understand.

The way it was explained to me by someone who has worked with John for years is that his particular type of Tourette's is like thinking of the worst possible thing you could say in a particular situation - then being unable to stop yourself from blurting that out.

Yes. Hence, 'I have a bomb' when walking through customs.

Tuliptree

Allira

You're making things up, Tuliptree

No-one has said the two black actors behaved appalling as you claim.

They lacked insight ad empathy, even after the film ‘I Swear’ had just won three awards.
The irony is not lost on me.

How do you know they lacked insight and empathy? You’re making things up

The terms and conditions on GN obviously passed you by when you joined.
We have little tiffs with one another but we never tell another member that they are making things up
Just not on.

ViceVersa

Thank you for that explanation. Makes sense.

petra

Tuliptree

Allira

You're making things up, Tuliptree

No-one has said the two black actors behaved appalling as you claim.

They lacked insight ad empathy, even after the film ‘I Swear’ had just won three awards.
The irony is not lost on me.

How do you know they lacked insight and empathy? You’re making things up

The terms and conditions on GN obviously passed you by when you joined.
We have little tiffs with one another but we never tell another member that they are making things up
Just not on.

I do apologise for saying Tuliptree was making things up.
She perhaps misread or misunderstood others' posts, perhaps they were not clear.

Or perhaps I missed a post where someone said the two Americans were behaving appalling.

Black footballers call each other the word constantly and no-one reacts because they're black so it's allowed.
Richard Pryor used the word constantly in his stand up and no-one reacts because he was black so it's allowed.
John Davidson involuntarily used the word with no ill intent or even conscious thought because of his disability and the world erupts because he's not allowed because he's white.
How dare he! He's mortified and even more distressed by his disability but context isn't taken into context because he's white.
What's that thing called when people are judged purely by the colour of their skin...oh yeah...racism.

Franski

I watched I swear and found it incredibly moving. That poor man snd what courage.
My question though is this: isn't Tourettes about not being able to control the verbal outbursts? In which case the thinking or attitude was there but not controlled..? I don't really understand how something can pop out that isn't already somewhere in your sub-conscious.
Dont shout me down! Genuinely trying to understand.

Do you know it's an inappropriate thing to say? My guess is you do so it's in your head marked "don't say it" and it's in his head just the same but unfortunately tourettes makes him say the most inappropriate thing. Doesn't mean he's racist.

So if black footballers routinely call each other N---- why is it offensive for a white footballer to do that. I've been called "White man" is that racist ?

I'm not entirely sure the world has errupted.

I don't recall ever being called " White Woman"

The film was excellent, which is where the focus should be.

I know we don't always manage to edit our posts on GN, but the BBC has a professional editing team, and I think had two hours to get the broadcast up to standard.