Banned from having contact with grandchildren

That's very different to the example you were defending maddyone so I'm not sure why you are still coming at me with this?

Besides, you have to understand how implicit bias leads to structural racism.

Family circles are an important part. The exposure and influence other adults have leads to both conscious and unconscious bias which leads to discrimination.

I will not allow those views around my children (my 2 AC would say the same)

Because these aren't opinions, these are morals and values

So how many generations do people want to lose? Why don't they value and respect those younger generations enough to actually listen to them either? Why, when the world at large is moving on, are they not keeping up and instead placing their own pride and controlling need to be right above their own children's feelings?

That's not healthy

Whatever worked for your family may not for others. You have set your own standard, not a standard for all

Well…… I wonder how any of us managed to side-step all the hazards of other people’s objectionable opinions and bring up fairly well-balanced healthy individuals with the ability to think for themselves.

It's simple

We start with British Values which are Individual Liberty, Tolerance and Respect. So we teach children that they are at liberty to express themselves and that's a right but they also have the right to tolerance and respect and so does everyone else

Then we can move onto things like the equality act and dive a little into what protected characteristics are and why they are protected.

We can also do a little of why some people are having to fight for their rights (discrimation) which or their freedoms (Ukraine) and how we can support that

Caleo

The far right opinions of grannies and others can often be made into jokes. Joking and gentle teasing take the sting out of bad information.

It could also teach the children inadvertently that racism and other far right ideas are to be accepted and tolerated so long as it’s just silly old granny! Silence in complicity comes to mind. I would never have wanted my children, or my dear grandchildren to think it’s okay to look past such serious character flaws in anyone

Whatever worked for your family may not for others. You have set your own standard, not a standard for all

This could apply to us all, yourself included. We will all have different ways of managing family dynamics. Not everyone has chosen to estrange a family member.

I wouldn't say it if I didn't apply it to myself Sarah

What made you think that?

I am saying - repeating - that we will all have different ways of managing family dynamics The way you have chosen would not suit others (me, for instance)

Cool

VS I did not give you a different example but if you choose to interpret what I said in that way, it’s entirely up to you.

No idea what is going on the maddyone

What is your specific problem.with what I have said?

Let's go from there

Personally I think just putting it down to "silly granny" doesn't help anyone

As you say Sara we all have different ways of managing family dynamics and as children grow into adult hood, the way their parents chose to manage them may not be their preferred option.

Not everyone chooses to estrange a family member and some may not agree that their parents did the right thing when estranging some of theirs.

Sarah75

I am saying - repeating - that we will all have different ways of managing family dynamics The way you have chosen would not suit others (me, for instance)

Sarah75 I am saying - repeating - that we will all have different ways of managing family dynamics.

Indeed.

Nobody has identical family to another.

Nobody "manages" anything the exact same way, either.

We estrange abusive people in my house. I would keep my children away from someone who is emotionally abusive the same way I would keep my children away from someone who is sexually or physically abusive. Each type does extreme harm to their victims and while I sometimes see the rhetoric that emotional abuse isn't that bad, that's an entirely ignorant viewpoint and disregards a large portion of the population struggling with low self esteem, anxiety, depression, suicide and physical health ailments.

My mother estranged many people too, jealousy, power, control and didn't really consider or care who got hurt in the process. She could see her own parents were abusive yet never estranged them and could never see how she carried that legacy on with her own daughter. Because she thought herself very special and important and always right

We are very different her and I, and my children and I are all much happier since estrangement and we finally feel safe. It's taught us a lot, about how to protect ourselves in future and how people like her are just... nothing, can't harm a hair on our heads, we have each other

Grams2five, I agree.

Violet Sky wrote:
" I would keep my children away from someone who is emotionally abusive the same way I would keep my children away from someone who is sexually or physically abusive."

Okay. However your children need to learn there are people who say bad things. We would not want to pretend to the kids these people don't exist. neither do we want to scare the children. What it all comes down to is : hate the action(or opinion) but not hate the person.

My children do know that Caleo and hate is a very pointless way to spend life. Which is why they have been brought up to be open minded and accepting

Violet Sky, we are on the same train.
I think that to ban the grandmother from the house is too much like hating the person.

My idea that the granny's daft idea can be laughed at about is like how parents might make fun of other bad ideas such as superstitions. For instance my mother used to laugh about ghosts ,which at one time frightened me , and that was how I learned ghosts were nonsense.

It's possible we strayed from OP a bit

But what I was saying is that if any grandma made racist remarks then calling her "silly granny" and poking fun is not the way forward.

Children will either repeat what granny says at school because granny is just silly or they will have no respect for granny and will eventually stop speaking to her anyway.

I'd rather give the responsibility to granny not to be an awful human.

"Those are irresponsible things to say around my children, I am not raising my children to be discriminatory and if you don't change that attitude my children won't be around you"

If granny didn't change I'd say to my children:

"The things your granny is saying are very unkind and not OK, we value others in this house and the things that make us different as well as the things that make us the same. Because granny won't stop saying those things, we won't visit granny until she changes her mind"

My children know that whoever they bring home, whether that is a partner or a friend, whatever their religion, race, gender or sexuality is welcome in my house. If they aren't welcome in grannies house granny isn't going to get a visit and that's grannies silly fault

Also genuinely, I can't see past racism, sorry, that's a character flaw that overshadows any good characteristics a person has. That's who they are and their whole personality in life and how they treat people is based on what they look like... racists are just not good people, cannot like, generally come with many other similar flaws, it is a no from me.

I stopped visiting "silly" grandma at 15, because she wasn't silly she was oppressive and harmful to multiple demographics and people like she was are the reason others are oppressed and fighting for their rights

But what I was saying is that if any grandma made racist remarks then calling her "silly granny" and poking fun is not the way forward.

I agree *VS

I used to try and think differently Madgran I was told growing up that some people "are a product of their time" but they arent boxed up in a museum somewhere, they exist in our time, they haven't changed because they choose not to

We actually need to know what Jenrev said, verbatim, her tone of voice, and the whole context. It would also help to read the young parents' opinions.

Unless we know these variables we can't assess what is the best response that will help the children to learn.

Jenrev may need to bring her ideas on racial equality( black lives matter) up to date, quite apart from future access to her grandchildren. If Jenrev can do this and demonstrate to the young parents she has changed her consciousness then she may be reinstated.

Actually in support of Jenrev, she has written that what she actually opposes is noisy or violent demos. I myself am all for supporting noisy demos. However there have been many grans writing on these pages who are like Jenrev in their opposition to violence in demos.

Is it just political views or has there been some overstepping also and they have had enough? I would say it’s fine to have differences in political views as long as you’re not shouting from the rooftops and telling others they should have the same views as you do (social media is terrible for this)
Did they try addressing it with you a number of times and you have chosen to not listen?
For your own daughter to cut you off, things must have become pretty bad and it’s not always possible to backtrack once that straw has broken the camels back.
Ultimately they have their own nuclear family and you need to let them be (the more you push, the more they will pull away) I understand this is very hard for you but they have ‘flown the best’ so to speak and only the parents can decide what is best for their children. If they consider your words or actions toxic, they won’t want their children growing up with that influence in their lives.
Is it maybe worth writing your daughter one last heartfelt letter to take accountability and apologise for your actions? (Don’t keep repeating how much you are hurting otherwise that means the focus of the letter is on you as opposed to how much you have hurt her) and tell her that after the letter, you won’t bother her anymore?
You have nothing more to lose so maybe worth a try?

Just pointing out that this thread is 4 months old