to desperately want them to stay here?

It's a funny thing with children AmberGold - they seem to think that their parents have no life of their own, no responsibilities or outside interests now that the children themselves have left home. "just come and visit" they say as though they are doing us a favour...
To be honest, I'm not sure that I could consider visiting just yet, the pain is still too great. Perhaps my feelings will change with time - be positive

Ambergold, I think your daughter is in the same sort of denial that I was. I believed visits would be easy, and we could all 'un-emigrate' if we didn't like it. Reality is different. At first you can't afford to come back home, and you don't realise how hard it can be, for various reasons, for parents to visit.

Later, when you could afford to come back home to live, invisible threads hold you - job, new friends, children being settled, and a reluctance to 'fail' or to be seen to have failed.

Visits are lovely of course, when they do happen, but bittersweet. Mum came twice, once when the lads were 2 and 5 and again when they were 5 and 8. After that Dad's stroke-related needs stopped her.

Later still, when you have absorbed, like it or not, the new cultural values, or at least some of them, you start to realise that you no longer belong back home. You may well be thoroughly settled and this doesn't matter.

Your best bet is to impress upon them that if they don't like it, you would understand completely, never judge them for their decisions, and you would help them settle back in any way you could.

The grass isn't greener on the other side - it is simply different.

My daughter and son in law are moving to live permanently in New Zealand next year. We have a lovely relationship and I don't pretend that I won't miss them, but I do understand their reasons for leaving and have done my best to say things to help our parting to be positive. They really have appreciated our situation and know that we are sad and will miss them, but as they are definitely going to go I want them to feel they go with our blessing and the hope that their new life will work out well for them.

Wise words Joan and certainly all dreams of foreign travel will disappear on both sides when savings go on trips between London and LA. I just feel sad abut the potential family "breakdown". My son and daughter are also so close and he will pop to London to see her when he can, seeing her about every 3 weeks. He is probably going to Afghanistan next year too and co-inciding his leave with her visits will nigh be impossible so goodness knows when they will see each other.
grannyactivist, of course we will give them our support and blessing if they make the decision to go. My daughter says they are not emigrating like yours, so that is some consolation - though who knows once they settle down.

Yes - agree with Joan - migration certainly not always an easy or good choice. It is hard to adjust to other cultures even if they are English speaking. One of my sons tried a couple of years in Ireland and really felt like an outsider the whole time. He has however found NZ a "fit". My other son tried NZ and felt like a outsider. He is finding life a struggle in Australia. Unless you have a profession like medicine which gives you a soft landing it is really tough. That is before cultural issues and having no-one who can have the kids for an hour.
It think your daughter should definitely go to have a look at the place she is relocating to (even if it is not supposed to be permanent). If her H was applying for a job in another part of UK she would naturally go and have a look around. Check out the local nursery schools etc. The USA is a big place and very various. We only have a hint about what it is like when we watch movies or go on a trip to NY or Disney. I remember one tiny example - in films, until recently, LA was depicted as a city full of white people. When i went there I realised it was very hispanic and always has been.
It will not be easy for her having a toddler and a baby somewhere where she has no support networks. it would be very different if she had no kids and she had no family and was to pursue her own career and meet people through that. (I am making an assumption there.... but moving, having a baby and finding a new job as well.... it is not going to happen in the short term methinks) Quite apart from anything else this is the worst possible moment for her to try to do this very difficult thing. The arrival of a second child combined with moving away from family support is a huge thing to take on. It is a huge change on top of another huge change. Many women with one child find the arrival of the second a huge shock. More I think about it the more crazy it seems to do this now. Is your SIL perhaps very anxious about supporting a growing family.

So I would put these points to her and try to leave aside your own feelings. Try to persuade her at least to go and look and to contact some others who have gone the same route.

It really depends on your ability to adapt. Twice in my life I have moved with young kids without seeing the house into which I was moving. I trusted my husband each time — each time a different one. We couldn't afford for me to travel the length of the country house-hunting as well. Each time also, I rang the local school to give them my children's names and to say when we'd turn up. The first time, we moved and DD1 started at her new school next day. She'd been at her old school for two terms and was just five. She settled in no bother. The three year old demanded a playgroup (there was no nursery school, although she'd just started at one in Edinburgh). We spent the first day walking round the new town putting her name down in reachable (by foot) playgroups. She soon got a place at the nearest one and settle in no bother. Then, twenty years on, I did the same thing again with a five year old. She settled into her new school no bother. And each time, I settled in to the new community by making an effort. I have never had family members nearby for support and have always had to be self-reliant.

What am I trying to say? Well, simply this. It's not that difficult if you just get on and do it and believe in yourself and your kids. Kids, especially young ones, are very adaptable. Home is where their parents are.

Cultural difficulties do exist, but to be honest I find a great deal of British "common culture" very alien, so the only biggy is a language barrier if that exists.

I've moved about a lot and have found people welcoming wherever I've been. I think it's possible to worry too much about what might happen.

I'm with you Baggy.
It is very very difficult to cope with, but, as said before, you give birth to them, you raise them, you give them the best and then - you let them go to do their own thing. If I think about it too hard, I crumble but I don't think about it; I just look forward to skyping, phoning, photographs and as many visits as we can all cram in or afford and in the meantime I just get on with my life and involve myself in lots of things and concentrate on my other children and grandchildren. I know that my daughter is happy where she is, with her family, and that her children are having a wonderful open-air upbringing. She has not much support from her local in-laws but has built up a good support network with her friends made through nursery, school etc. Life is what you make it. I, an only child, moved 500 miles from my own parents when my children were very young and I know how she suffered from not seeing them regularly and I suffered from not having her help when I needed it, but times were different then. Now it is almost the norm for children to live far far away and, sadly, it's just something we have to get used to.

Do you not think that, if your children move away at university time and then never move back [having married and started a family in another part of the country] it's easier than having them nearby and then suddenly losing them? What this thread has made me do is realise that my life could change dramatically over the next few years, and I should be slightly prepared for it. Almost like the way I felt when they were at school and I knew that one day they would go away to university.

Bang on, crimson. My own feeling has always been that one's responsibility as a parent is to move away, as it were inch by inch (or even millimetre by millimetre) every day of our children's lives while they are dependent on us. It's not pushing them away, but allowing them and encouraging them to become very gradually more and more independent.

I also think that, although change can be hard, having a positive frame of mind about it, is more inducive to happiness in the long term.

The problem is that my kids did move back, and they're living just up the road! At least the husband, who moved out at the same time, never came back........

I think they are moving to the decision of going there. The waiting is really stressing me. Crimson you are so right. This has also shown me (yet again) how suddenly life can change. 11 days ago I would have said that life was damn near perfect; now it's all come crashing down. So, never take anything for granted and never postpone.

Baggy - you're so right about having a positive frame of mind. I'm definitely a "glass half full" person but I live with a "glass half empty" and his down moods sometimes have an effect on me. He misses the grandchildren more than me I think as his life is not so busy.

Ambergold - the waiting and indecision is the worst part. Now that mine have finally gone it's actually easier. I know it sounds peculiar but, to me, it's true

Well the update is that they are going. The package on offer is good and I guess on the face of it, who wouldn't want to live in California? If we were retired we'd be following them.
Now I just have to keep positive. I'm not sure how I keep the relationship I have with my grandson going, he is so young and I am going to miss terribly him being close and staying here on his own.
A small consolation is that because my daughter is pregnant, she will not move until January/February when the baby is fit to travel so there will be a period of getting used to the idea. I still can't quite believe it. It seems that whenever I get my life on track (which is incredibly hard work at times due to situations we have been in) that something happens which just floors me again. Now I shall say goodbye to both children in the space of a few weeks as they head off to different countries.
I have learnt though that there is a great deal of support, provoking thoughts and wise advice on Gransnet, so thank you for all that.

Oh Amber - keep coming here and we will try to help.

love to you. x

Thanks for the update AmberGold, keep positive - it's going to be a tough few months. Our thoughts are with you x

At least you know now, which, in some ways is better than a thread of uncertainty. Think ahead one year from now..there will have been [hopefully] a visit to see them, lots of communication with them as well. You'll be very strong but, when you're not you'll come here and everyone will understand. I had a discussion with my daughter today about the possibility of it happening to us one day. I do regret stopping my [then] husband from working abroad when we were younger because I was such a stay at home. Try to make the most of the next few months [I know it's easy to say that]. Lots of group hugs coming up in the future, methinks....

Hey Amber, my daughter and her husband are planning to leave for NZ in Jan/Feb. I'm already thinking of making plans to visit them for my 60th birthday in a couple of years time. I'll have to start some serious saving up.

I would have been better for us if we'd had Skype back in the 1980s and 1990s. Talking face to face will be a real help, Ambergold. America is not as far as Australia, so visits should be relatively affordable.

Think of it this way - your genes are improving the American gene pool!!

And like the others said - you've got us lot to talk to when it all seems too sad.

I have written about this on another thread but many of you on this one are in the same situation exactly as me! my son and DIL moved to NZ 18 months ago and it completely broke my heart. I was v close to my son and we used to speak to and see each other often. I missed him so desperately when he went-it is a kind of grief and I think you have to recognise that. No amount of skyping and emailing makes up for the contact you are used to and the fact that your child is 24 hours flying away from you!
Anyway I had just about come to terms with it when they announced they were going to have a baby! She was born in June and they came to visit with her only a few weeks old. I had a wonderful week with them all and became even closer to my son. He said to me that I must realise that his wife and baby need him more than I do now and of course he is totally correct.
However... they have gone back now and the pain is intense and visceral. I have to start all over again getting used to their absence.
They have a wonderful life over there and say they won't stay forever so how can I not be glad for them?
Ambergold, Geordiegran and everyone else-I feel for you so much! those of you who are still married to the father of their child may find it easier as you have someone to share the pain with. I am not and my new partner has not children and no empathy over it-his attitude is ' they've made their decision and you will have to accept it'

Speldnan ((((((((( *BIG HUG*))))))))))

I do feel very sad for you. x

thank you jangly for the hug!! it is much appreciated!

Spelday I do feel for you. yes we accept their decision but tha doesn't take the pain away. I hope you'll get some support and hugs here to help. My daughter and Grandson have just spent 4 days here and now every moment is precious before they move. It's hard listening to her excitement and plans for their new home. I'll feel better once I've booked an air ticket.

Amber enjoy the next few months with your daughter and grandson. Start planning your next trip to see them. I always feel better leaving my daughter and grandchildren if I know when my next trip will be.

I know how you feel Ambergold. I hope you get to arrange a visit to your family soon. I have no idea when I will see mine. I am trying to get on with my life without them-it's all I can do. It's about 3 weeks since I have seen them and the memories and pain is fading a bit now thank goodness.
One thing I know is that you cannot put your own life on hold because of your absent children and grandchildren-life is just too short.
My elderly mother has impressed this on me and she is right. My parents are also very sad that their grandson and great granddaughter are not nearby and they are very afraid that they may NEVER see them again as they are in their 80s. But they know they may not have many years left so try hard to be happy and make the most of their lives.
Do any other of you have parents also affected by absent families?
My brother moved to the US 40 years ago and never came back so it is not a new thing at all.

Just a little ray of hope for you ... we actually moved to the US about 6 years ago ,leaving my Mum alone in London.

We felt terrible, my Mum was so close to my children -at one point living next door to us

But...we are coming home! The US is not for us, and I want my Mum in our children's lives.

This is just brief part of my story ,I just wanted to let you know that even if they do leave ...they just might be back

I hope all of you find peace and are able to gain acceptance for however long you might need to.

Good luck.

BTW,my Mum found she was surrounded by too many memories in London (having raised both her girls there) so she took herself off (at 66) to live in Cornwall. I know that type of drastic measure is not possible/wanted for all ,but point is; she did cope and learn to thrive in a new home/situation.