Worried about DD and DGC

Thank you Flickety B
I do make the most of my other daughter, the young one. I am sad that my DD1 is isolating herself and putting her children and herself at risk but I know that I can not go on coping. I know that there are quite a few other grans who are treated much the same as me and I feel for them as well as myself. It is not right. We cannot change the way our kids turn out despite our best efforts. I have been out with DD2 a fair bit recently. I enjoy our wee outings and I know she has been good in her life and good to me. She deserves recognition and she has had it.
Hope you are well thanks again
Sugarpufffairy

Sugarpufffairy You are going through a difficult time and no-one who reads your sad story can do other than feel sympathy for you. But you obviously have a second daughter who is kind and loving and everything a daughter should be and she is probably more typical, of today's young mothers than your other daughter. Make the most of her and remember although one of your children is a source of great sadness and worry for you the other is the reverse and glory that she is all that she is.

Sadly you are not the only grandparent in your situation. That is no consolation but it does mean that you are not alone and there are other gransnetters who understand what you are going through from their own experience and others who may not share your experience but are always here to support you.

Hi
Just to update.
I have seen DD1 and children literally once or twice since September 2014 She is still working all sorts of crazy hours and the husband is still not working or doing much cleaning.
DD1 has had time to go to a place 40 miles from here to pick up something for his sister but no time to see me 4 miles away or DD2 who is 8 miles from her.
DD1 had bought me a present of a voucher for a day out for 2. We went together to that. I also bought her some clothes while we were out. I had already bought clothes for DGD. I bought several outfits for DGS while we were out.
I next heard from her in mid December that she was at work on night shift but did not have an inhaler with her. I had to get out of bed get dressed and drive through town in the middle of the night. Not a word of thanks. The next day I called at her house to check her asthma so that I could feel comfortable with her determination to go to work (if she does not work she does not get paid). She had already left. Her husband was there with the DGC, the boy was asleep and the girl age 5 was sent to bed while he ate a sandwich. I was not offerred tea or food. He told me his sister had been ready to go in a taxi with an inhaler but the cost would be a lot. I left.
I asked DD! if she was going to DD2 for Christmas. She said NO. I was at DD2 with EX her father.
DD1 then put a picture on Facebook of my father just days before he died. My dad was in a hospital bed wearing a hospital gown and did not look like himself at all. I asked her to take this off and got heaps of mums from Baby Centre abusing me for asking her.
I have cut her off my facebook.
My Ex invited everyone for New Year dinner. I went and it was as fine as Christmas Day. He said that is the third New Year he has invited DD1 and family and she has failed to appear or make contact to explain why she just does not show up.
DD2 and my Ex are both angry with her. I am disappointed in her. We just cannot go on like this. I feel so sorry that she has lost her eldest 2 children who are now both over 12 and could ask to see her but one has said nothing the other who is older said there was to be no contact. Now DD2, my Ex and myself are all giving up with her. The kids are not allowed to see their maternal relatives. They apparently NEEDED clothes despite their mother working all hours. Social Workers are not well enough trained in abuse to understand manipulation and isolation so no help there.
I cant see that there is anything more that can be done. One thing I will say is that if what happened on Facebook is an example of the young mothers of today God help the children! They are foul and vile, scummy types. I would not want anything to do with their likes.
Sad but that is life as a grandmother in 2015
Sugarpufffairy

sugarpuff seek help for yourself. Speak to Age UK, and to your GP, the problems you are going through are obviously damaging your health. Seek help from other members of your family, they are clearly supportive.

Then take a deep breath and try to think about the situation unemotionally. All, well nearly all, of us love our children and grandchildren deeply and want to spare them any harm, but sometimes the best way to do this is to have the courage to step back and do nothing. To do, not what we want to do, but what is in the long-term best interest of our family.

In this case, I think you need to choose to disengage from your DD and DGC. To a large extent this has happened, but I would imagine that when the next crisis strikes they will be back. When that happens, quietly and firmly refuse any help, express no worries or concerns. Enter Just say no and withdraw. By giving help, by expressing your distress to your daughter, by trying to help, you are actually prolonging the agony and helping the family unit survive.

Once your DD has to stand on her own, without your physical, monetary support and emotional involvement, she may reach the tipping point you so desire. There is no guarantee, but it is more likely than not. Then you can step in and without recrimination offer the practical help she will need to establish herself and her children alone and in safety.

Morning Sugarpuff sorry to hear of your sad plight, I too asked other family members to help, they didn't and now they have been cut out of my D & GC lives too. I wish you luck
I wish with all my heart that my D would do they same as yours Kiora, and leave her nasty husband and his mother (they now live with her). Well done

hi
Quick update. I have not seen DD1 since she took away the things she was storing in one of my properties on 18 August. For the few weeks before this happened she was not answering texts or phone calls not just from me but also from other people. Schools opened here on 13 August. I have not seen my DGD since she started school on that date. There is a non school age child too that I have not seen for months. A number of friends and relatives have given up with trying to get her to see sense about what is going on.
I have been ill and she has not even phoned to checked that I am alive. All help has come from another 1 of my children. That is not fair. I had to care for my parents single handedly although I was not an only child. It is so difficult with some people. I dont think I can cope with all this anymore. Worse than that I dont think I even want to try! What a sad statement.
Sugarpufffairy

sugarpuffairy I can really empathise with you. My problems with my daughter are very well documented on here so I won't bore everyone with another description. I'm afraid you just have to wait it out until she hits rock bottom. If my daughter asked for my advice I would encourage her to leave offering all our support but I never forced my opinions on her. I just kept reassuring her that she could make a life if she left. That we'd help all we could. During one conversation I said " your not old but do really think you've got another 15 years to waste. If your going to leave perhaps you need to take into account that your dad and I will be due to retire in the next 3-5 years and won't have the finances to help as much as we can now" The other thing that helped was that she took her boys to a boxing club and after a few months the people there saw what we had always known was there and encouraged her and gave her the confidence to leave. I think they made her realise her own worth. I know it's hard but don't clean her house, your just delaying things and propping up the situation. I just made sure that when I saw the children and my daughter that I gave them some respite and we enjoyed ourselves. My daughter left at Christmas. Now she keeps telling everyone how happy she is. It's not that she's happy. It's that she's free, free of fear, free of depression, of being manipulated, being controlled,. For the first time in her life she has a life. A life of her own at 35. But she had to hit the bottom and we had to watch. So in short stand by her as much as you can. Encourage her to meet other people so she can perhaps see her situation through other peoples eyes. And look after your own emotional health this sort of stuff is draining. Good luck and hang on in there

Hi
I managed to make contact with the appropriate person. They dont seem to think there is much going on or much that they can do.
This weekend the whole situation has completely blown up. Other family mumbers have decided enough is enough. At least one of the friends from primary school has now decided to leave this situation.
I am heartbroken. This is my daughter and I want her (and the children) to be safe, comfortable and clean. It looks as if no-one here is going to do anything to help them. No wonder there are baby Ps all over the UK. According to Action on Elder Abuse Social Services are responsible for ensuring the elderly and disabled are safe. The person I spoke to did not seem to think this was the case. If the worst comes to the worst I wil fight to my death to ensure that this man does not get his hands on any money (other than what he takes from my daughter)
Sugarpufffairy

I totally agree with the view that he thinks he can pick on weaker people. My husband and father died with within months of each other. My husband would have given this SIL a good fright shall we say and my dad would have sliced and diced him with two sentences. I know that he is taking advantage of this situation. My other SIL refuses point blank to be in the same place as this SIL.
He has already found out that I might be old, small and ill but I do bite back. He does not have the sense to keep that in mind. I refused to hand over money. I will never allow the children to be short of food. I really wish they could have clean plates cups and bottles.
All this is going on in Scotland so I doubt is Clare's Law would apply here. When SS investigiated it came out that he had a stealing conviction. We know that he has a daughter that he does not see. There have been two conflicting stories about this. My daughter has already had two children taken from her because they were being hit by the previous partner and she did not or could not stand up to him. When he hit me years ago and I was younger then I hit him straight back and she screamed at me to stop hitting him!
I have stayed out of the way since I last saw them a few days ago. I have been in the house as I feel very tired and sore after heaving stuff around to move them to the new house. There was no money to pay a van despite all the over time lately,
Other family members are staying away completely. I have phoned SS today but the person I have to speak to was not available today. I will try tomorrow. It is all causing me so much stress and worry. The last time it all caused me to have a stroke and I am scared of that again.
Something has to be done. I am glad that emotional abuse is being recognised together with this keeping family members away from the woman (or man). I have to think of some way to make her see the light and hoping to get someone to speak to her as a long time friend.
Thank you all for your kindness and consideration.
Sugarpufffairy.

There is a scheme referred to s Clare's law which allows a person to see if a partner has any history od domestic abuse.

content.met.police.uk/Article/Domestic-Violence-Disclosure-Scheme---Clares-Law/1400022792812/1400022792812

stansgran If you have never heard of a man/woman who fits this description then you are very lucky.

There are a lot of them about in all socio economic groups in society. they tend to light on those partners that are emotionally vulnerable or very lonely.

Can you give SS a written account? They may take more notice if they have time to run down a list. But do ask to stay anonymous (for fear of recrimination) as he may use it to drive a wedge between you and your daughter.

Otherwise, as others have said, you can only wait and be there for them when you DD hits the bottom.

Oh, and you don't give them money do you? Food, clothes for the children yes, but never money.

Sugarpufffairy Oh how I recognise the discription of your SIL, my DDs x was similar in every way apart from the money manipulation with relatives,my DD is a very clever girl when it comes to education etc but when it comes to partner choice she is the pits and she now knows it,after several years of him constantly alienating her friends she had no one but us to turn to and he told her we where ashamed of her as she couldn't cope,all her friends stopped talking or visiting as he was so unpleasent and he turned violent for no reason when this happened enough was enough and her brothers dealt with the matter I have never asked what happened but he moved out pretty damm quick,do you have any family who can speak to him or does he frighten everyone with his attitude,bullies hate it when they are confronted.
It took a long while for my girl to get rid of this person but until your DD reaches rock bottom I think you are going to have stand by and just keep watch and keep the door open for her,certainly get SS back on board and insist they help you.

One of the things that both AA and Al-anon remind us is that you can't change other people, only oneself. So there is not point doing what you have always done, if the situation isn't improving. (This isn't personal, just a general principle. Einstein said something like "insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome.) So get help for yourself and think how you can change your behaviour - not to be unkind or uncaring but not to be so involved.
As others have said, the safety of the children is paramount, so badger the social workers if you feel they are in danger.
I hope things improve for you all soon.

Stansgran please understand that it is not just men. From where I am standing it is the other way round. I just don't think that men admit to being bullied by women and it is hard for them when assaulted if they don't want to hit back and don't feel they can admit to being bullied by a woman.

I dont think that my daughter wants to be a single parent and be responsible for everything. She did say to me once that she feels she has enough responsibility. What she does not get is that this way she has 2 children and one huge lump of loud mouth lard!!
I have only met his mother twice and that for only a few minutes each time, but she did say to me, as a person she does not know, that the worst thing she ever did was marry her husband! I dont get why if she does not like being married to her husband she should leave. I have never met the man. I used to hate his mum but now I wonder. I hated her because he always went on about his mum but someone has indicated that the mum feels put upon by having to babysit so much and feels that she has to harrass them to take the children away again.
My daughter is being very sharp and is clearly irritated with him at the moment but he says he will not dump her. I would not take her carry on just now! It looks like she is a good meal ticket to him but he is draining her money and probably her spirit.
I dont get why my daughter is putting up with this. She has seen me cope on my own. She is or was highly intelligent. She choses bad men for some reason. It seems to be something that goes on a lot. Maybe I was a single parent but I knew where every penny went and no-one got near my money. I owned a flat and a car as a single parent so I cant have been too bad an advert.
Sugarpufffairy

Where do these men come from? Who are their parents? I have never met anyone like that and yet if you read Mumsnet they are awash with thoroughly unpleasant types and yet seemingly grown women go for them.is it desperation for children that makes them shack up with anyone? Don't mean to hijack your thread Sugarpufffairy but I just don't get it.

Hi everyone
Thank you all so much for the time and concern you have put into your replies.
I have tried before to get Social Services to help. I think a Social Worker went out to the house they were in at that time. This year they have lived at 4 different houses. The Son in Law told me that they Social Worker did not believe what I had said. I was never sure if that was the truth given that I had contact with Social Workers when I was a carer and had some stupid expereiences.
I dont think there is any drugs involved but I do know that they eat a lot of take away meals and eat out. He smokes made cigarettes. My daughter also smokes but not as much. They recently went on holiday for a long weekend and no doubt spent a fortune on rubbishy things and eating out. Yet they knew they were about to move house.
I have made an official complaint about the solicitor involved in the attempt to get the elderly now deceased person to buy them a house. I was subjected to pressure to buy them a car. I am also emotionally blackmailed to provide other things. I only give in to help the DGC.
It is in the news today that manipulation is now recognised as abuse. I feel like singing! This is what is going on all around here. Older ill people, wee kids and a wee widow in poor health,(me) everyone is being manipulated to fit what this man wants. Most people are leaving my DD's life therefore other children of similar age to DGC are also kept away. I need this to stop and hopefully the fact that manipulation is now recognised will help.
Thank you all so much
Sugarpufffairy

I agree with those who say you should contact social services for the sake of the children. Go on, do it now.

If the house is so dirty I think your DD must be too depressed to cope or she would make sure it was done. She needs help but I don't know how you can get it for her but if SS are involved they may well know.

We have a relative who is married to a very manipulative controlling woman who had him convinced he was mentally ill when he wasn't. They went for counselling and she said the counsellor agreed with everything she said and that he was at fault and she was in the right so she stopped going. He was so stressed by her physical and emotional abuse that he alienated himself from his family. She would hit him and then call the police and say he hit her and he didn't deal with it at all. Eventually it came to a head and he tried to commit suicide. Now they are separated and he has spent time in hospital with sever depression but is finally coming out of it and seeing her for what she really is. He is back in contact with his family who are supporting him but it is going to be a long haul as they have children and she is being totally unreasonable and still calling the police, last time because she said one of his relatives had told a lie.

That's very true shysal. My ex did his best to isolate me from anyone who might help. The isolation helps to maintain the control.

I feel for you sugarpuff, it must be very difficult for you to look on and feel so helpless, I don't know what the solution is.
DD1, now 44 years old, has always chosen the wrong men, right from school days. I realized that she had to find out for herself and always kept my opinions to myself, which was very difficult. Now that her marriage to a cheating, manipulative, and controlling idiot is ending in divorce I have been able to speak my mind. At last she can see the truth, but if I had interfered I would probably have been excluded from their lives by him and never had contact with DD or my DGCs.

With two elements of the "unholy trinity" of drink, drugs and gambling being mentioned, I'd be very surprised if the third one (drugs) didn't feature. What a worry for you.

Tresco makes a good suggestion, find some support for yourself.

You say he smokes. Does he roll his own? Cannabis cannot be cheap.

Who looks after your grandchild when your daughter is at work?

Like tresco I wonder about addiction problems here. If DD earns good money and it vanishes at such speed it has to be going somewhere.

I am so sorry that you are facing these problems - our children's happiness is so dependent on the right choice of partner, and if they get it wrong there is little we can do except be there for them (and for the GC).

As Vampire says, in the interest of the children's well being alone you can anonymously contact social services. They can influence and guide and help professionally and are well able to cope with manipulative husbands.